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Old 05-09-2008, 08:22 PM
 
46 posts, read 100,786 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
Fine,

Unfortunately minorities who own their homes can be forced out due to higher property taxes.
That's a good point. I didn't think of that. Surprises me though that the increased value of their homes wouldn't offset that. If rents in a location can increase so drastically just over a few years, then the real estate values are going to be doing the same.

If you want to talk about being "displaced", don't talk about it as if it's just a new thing, or just a gentrification thing. Hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced in Chicago's history for non-gentrification reasons. Most of them were *not* minorities. And by "displaced", I mean literally forced to leave their homes, regardless of how much money they had.

Displacement is a really loaded term anyway, used by anti-gentrification activists, which has a different meaning than any real historic context. Historically, a displaced person is a refugee. Are the people moving out of gentrifying neighborhoods refugees? Or are they simply people relocating within a specific metropolitan area, to an economically and sociologically similar neighborhood that they used to live in, where they can get a better deal on housing costs? If residents are being displaced from Pilsen, do they really have no place to go? Is Pilsen the only working class Hispanic neighborhood in Chicagoland?

If potentially rising rents or taxes are that big of a concern, it's pretty easy to avoid neighborhoods that may be threatened by gentrification.
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Old 05-12-2008, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 17,873,352 times
Reputation: 3597
I don't really think it's all about having no where else to go, but it sucks to have to leave your neighborhood after being there for many years, raising children etc.

That's not me saying I am anti-gentrification or that neighborhoods shouldn't be allowed to change naturally, I'm just saying it's important to look at it from the angle of someone who had to leave a neighborhood they loved - it's no fun and it would certainly make me sad.
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
2,013 posts, read 3,884,501 times
Reputation: 1055
The "had to" part of it really needs to be examined closer. I saw plenty of Hispanic families formerly of Pilsen paying $300k + for homes in Cicero and Berwyn during the housing boom. I'm sorry but if you're laying down that kind of scratch for a house, I have to seriously question how applicable the term "had to" is to your situation.

I'm also curious as to how high rents really are in Pilsen. Are they high enough to really push people out? I'm dubious of that. Isn't the anti-gentrification crusader who posted earlier paying $220/month? Again, I'm not a low income renter but I imagine you'd have to as poor as a bag of top soil to not be able to afford that.

Maybe the people being "pushed out" in reality don't like the changes they're seeing in Pilsen and are deciding to exercise voluntary choices to move elsewhere? It's hard to imagine anyone not wanting to live around someone like Rlynne but, hey, there may be a few. Anyone examine this, or are we just going on knee-jerk assumptions here?
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 17,873,352 times
Reputation: 3597
I wasn't speaking of Pilsen in particular, I'm not convinced they're far enough along the gentrification path to have seen the mass "displacement" (or whatever we're calling it) there, not yet anyway. And while that poster mentioned she spends 220 on rent, she's also sharing with 4 other people, which is always going to be cheaper than living on your own.

But it certainly happens and has happened. Anyone with a further interest in this topic should check out a book by a Columbia professor titled Root Shock: How Tearing Up City Neighborhoods Hurts America, and What We Can Do About It. (Available on Amazon)
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:42 PM
 
11,552 posts, read 3,880,629 times
Reputation: 3580
Default Price of house is meaningless if you can't afford the taxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
The "had to" part of it really needs to be examined closer. I saw plenty of Hispanic families formerly of Pilsen paying $300k + for homes in Cicero and Berwyn during the housing boom. I'm sorry but if you're laying down that kind of scratch for a house, I have to seriously question how applicable the term "had to" is to your situation.

I'm also curious as to how high rents really are in Pilsen. Are they high enough to really push people out? I'm dubious of that. Isn't the anti-gentrification crusader who posted earlier paying $220/month? Again, I'm not a low income renter but I imagine you'd have to as poor as a bag of top soil to not be able to afford that.

Maybe the people being "pushed out" in reality don't like the changes they're seeing in Pilsen and are deciding to exercise voluntary choices to move elsewhere? It's hard to imagine anyone not wanting to live around someone like Rlynne but, hey, there may be a few. Anyone examine this, or are we just going on knee-jerk assumptions here?
I think rent for the time being is affordable in Pilsen, so I'm not really sure if any type of displacement has occured in that area. I think people are predicting more than observing it. There are other areas which certainly have experienced it. There are houses in Logan Square that have a $19,000 property tax bill. If the owners were middle class people who bought the house 30 years ago at the age of 40, do you really think they could afford to pay those taxes? What if they grew up the home and are now middle class. Even if their home is paid off, they have to pay $19,000 in taxes alone!! I doubt these people are leaving voluntarily. I think the problem is that people have different opinions of displacement. Displacement could mean different things. Most people know that when you refer to displacement in chicago you are not talking about refugees. Just as when you talk about hunger in Chicago you are not talking about starvation. Perhaps some of the anti gentrification crowd does attept to hijack the meaning to make it sound worse than it is. Regardless, if you are forced to leave an area you are happy with, especially if it is getting nicer, it sucks.
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Chicago
35,683 posts, read 53,399,126 times
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If property taxes are so extreme that people cannot keep their homes, then it sounds like tax reform is the proper recourse, not social engineering.
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Chicago
15,589 posts, read 11,831,901 times
Reputation: 1761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
If property taxes are so extreme that people cannot keep their homes, then it sounds like tax reform is the proper recourse, not social engineering.
You aint gonna get property tax reform as long is Daley is mayor.
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:29 AM
 
8 posts, read 52,750 times
Reputation: 22
Since I am a middle class Latino (should this matter?) considering Pilsen, did you decided to move to Pilsen Polaroids? I always think it is best to go spend a few hours anyplace, and yes check it out at night.

I think that with UIC so close and that campus gaining prestige (viz. U of Chicago and Northwestern) it only makes sense to see the area changing. My only concern with buying (June 2008) is that there are so many places on the market, or in some stage of foreclosure right now in East and West Pilsen that the boom and the gentrification might be at an end here and across the city. The bubble has burst!

I remember going to Pilsen as a kid and there were still a few Czech restaurants on Cermak but there was a lot of garbage in the streets and it looked run down and I grew up in a Latino neighborhood myself - of course this was when the "old" Maxwell Street still existed.

It seems it has gotten better as each year passes since Pilsen has a lot going for it: Close proximity to downtown and the highway and good CTA and Metra train coverage. They could use a riverfront park down there if only one of those harbors were converted to green/water space. Right now there are trucks parked on the banks of the Chicago river!

It would have been nice if Pilsen had been a urban village and something had been done to help that happen even as new people moved in. If this were done Pilsen would be a collection of villages and one could get good Bohemian/German bread, Czech beer on tap, Mexican meats, and Italian pasta and hear German, Czech, Spanish, and Italian music within a 10 block radius. Now that would be cool!

It strikes me that people like Rlynne are part of the solution since diversity is a two way street!

Last edited by MkeOrd; 06-03-2008 at 01:32 AM.. Reason: correction
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:23 PM
 
19 posts, read 63,538 times
Reputation: 13
Hi, I was just wondering what exactly you mean by street smarts, Rlynne. Are you talking not going out alone at night? Is that enough to keep you safe in this neighborhood? I am thinking of moving to Pilsen also, from a much smaller city (Buffalo). In my neighborhood, car break ins are really common - there have been a few instances where we heard guns fired but they were really out of the ordinary, and one person on my street got robbed recently. I'm a woman living with my male partner but I feel safe here, generally, even once in awhile by myself... is Pilsen comparable to this? Buffalo technically has more crime per capita than Chicago but Chicago is so huge I have no idea what that really means!
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Old 06-26-2008, 08:00 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,749 times
Reputation: 10
You had me at the permits from the drug dealer part. You kill me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlynne View Post
Hi. I've lived in Pilsen-- near the Damen stop-- for two years, and I love it. There are lots of families, street vendors with amazing horchata, great places to buy fresh fruits and vegetables, and Harrison Park with the Mexican Fine Arts museum. Is there gang activity in Pilsen? Yes. Does that automatically make it a bad neighborhood? Not in my view. Not all gangbangers are bad people-- please don't give in to the stereotype. My friends on the North Side have had more safety/crime issues than I or my roommates have had (five single girls just out of college). All you need is a little bit of street smarts, and to come in with a view of respect and openness to your neighbors rather than fear. The drug dealer across the street gave us free parking permits. You do, however, need to take a long hard look at issues of gentrification, because if you're not Hispanic working class, you'll be contributing to it if you move here. It's true, it's cheap rent (I pay 220 plus utilities and I share with four others), but at what real cost to the community?
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