Thinking of a move from L.A. to Chicago... (Evanston: buy, private schools)

[chet everett]

If your kid is super smart and busts his hienny ALL the time to work on really long research projects at an actual library and doing lab reports that are more detailed than a lot of college kids do and doing this ON THEIR OWN then they can be in the IB program at LP and write their own ticket to an Ivy League school. Not too many kids do that -- most of the kids at LP enjoy the City way too much and end up struggling to get into any kind of decent college Of course the building looks like it was built by folks imprisioned during the Civil War, which it may have been, but then again it ain't like ETHS is shiny new either... The big issue is that the "step down" from the IB kids to the regular population is far more extreme than any suburban HS where the honors might not be as top notch, but the middle-of-pack kids will be a lot closer... The data on parent "satisfaction" is VERY damning of the LPHS experience: Chicago Public Schools

Personally, I would trade the "boringness" of pretty much any nicer suburb around Chicago for the hassle of living in Chicago -- from the taxes to the criminally bad mail service to the ridiculous parking situation to the unbelievably cavalier attitude that City workers offer to citizens regarding every kind of "service", I have grown accustomed to life in "boring" land...

[jessiegirl_98]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

I think Evanstons High School is much better than Lincoln Park H.S. but thats just my opinion although I am sure many others would agree. But it is your choice of course.


In terms of looks and construction alone from what I can see-
Personally, I think the Kenmore is the best one.
2)Orchard
3)Magnolia

Not all of 60614 is in LP but all LP addresses are in 60614. Does that make any sense?
Gold Coast is one of the areas in 60610 but not all of 60610 is in the Gold Coast.There is not much wrong with the Gold Coast really of course.
:-)

According to US news and Newsweek, Lincoln Park is the best high school in Illinois, and one of the best in the country.
I don't have time for it now but I know through CPS you can list potential addresses and it will tell you which districs it's in

[Drover]

Originally Posted by jessiegirl_98

According to US news and Newsweek, Lincoln Park is the best high school in Illinois, and one of the best in the country.
I don't have time for it now but I know through CPS you can list potential addresses and it will tell you which districs it's in

Did you actually look at US New's criteria? For one, they exclude schools with an SAT average of 1300 or higher, or ACT average of 27 or higher -- you know, the schools that are actually most likely to be "the best high schools" in the country. Those are included on a separate ranking of so-called "elite" schools. (Note that Lincoln Park High School is not on that list, so at the very most, Lincoln Park is among the best of the "also-ran" schools.) Then they take the remainder and rank them according to the number of AP, IB and/or Cambridge tests taken by all students at a given school -- without any regard for the actual outcome of these tests, mind you -- and divide it by the number of graduating seniors. A school with a graduation rate of 25% can score high on this test if 25% of student body also take AP or IB tests, even if every one of them gets hopelessly lousy scores, and even if their graduates can barely read at a 7th grade level. This is a completely meaningless metric of a school's educational quality and a lousy predictor of the students' future success.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by Drover

Did you actually look at US New's criteria? For one, they exclude schools with an SAT average of 1300 or higher, or ACT average of 27 or higher -- you know, the schools that are actually most likely to be "the best high schools" in the country. Those are included on a separate ranking of so-called "elite" schools. (Note that Lincoln Park High School is not on that list, so at the very most, Lincoln Park is among the best of the "also-ran" schools.) Then they take the remainder and rank them according to the number of AP, IB and/or Cambridge tests taken by all students at a given school -- without any regard for the actual outcome of these tests, mind you -- and divide it by the number of graduating seniors. A school with a graduation rate of 25% can score high on this test if 25% of student body also take AP or IB tests, even if every one of them gets hopelessly lousy scores, and even if their graduates can barely read at a 7th grade level. This is a completely meaningless metric of a school's educational quality and a lousy predictor of the students' future success.

What are you talking about?

Thomas Jefferson High School, #1 in the US News ranking has an average SAT score of 2155 (on the 2400 scale). Lincoln Park HS is #90.
Gold Medal Schools - US News and World Report

The US News selection methodology goes beyond just the number of AP or IB tests taken.

"The 2008 U.S.News & World Report America's Best High Schools methodology, developed by School Evaluation Services, a K-12 education data research business run by Standard & Poor's, is based on the key principles that a great high school must serve all its students well, not just those who are bound for college, and that it must be able to produce measurable academic outcomes that show the school is successfully educating its student body across a range of performance indicators.

...A three-step process determined the best high schools. The first two steps ensured that the schools serve all of their students well, using state proficiency standards as the measuring benchmarks. For those schools that made it past the first two steps, a third step assessed the degree to which schools prepared students for college-level work.

...a "college readiness index" based on the weighted average of the AP participation rate (the number of 12th-grade students who took at least one AP test before or during their senior year, divided by the number of 12th graders) along with how well the students did on those AP tests..."
The Ranking Formula - US News and World Report

Expanded selection methodology:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/hig...ethodology.pdf

[rgb123]

Originally Posted by 310man

I'm looking for something a little more urban than West LA. Has anyone been to LA? Lived in LA? I'm looking for something like Manhattan Beach, downtown Santa Monica, West Hollywood, or Old Town Pasadena in terms of walkability and being close enough to restaurants and shops that I wouldn't have to drive too often.

I have decided that inland would be better, but not too far inland. Maybe just like a mile or two west of Lake Shore Drive (OMG...just realized it's abbreviated LSD!!).

310 man


I think you are doing a good job narrowing things down. Keep in mind everyone has their ideas and opinions of what constitues a great place to live.

LA and Chicago are very, very different. Plus, on this board you have some hardcore urban-philes. Just keep that in mind when you are getting suggestions to avoid certain places they might not consider urban enough.

Wilmette -- well its not that boring in my opinion. Yes I have met and unfortunatley dated some rather entitled and spoiled people from that area. However, New Trier is an excellent school, its a great opportunity for kids who get to go there. I did not grow up in a district like that...I never got to be on a swim team cause we didn't have a pool. You know....I kinda resent that.

If you are a good parent, the excess of what New Trier offers will not make your children into spoiled brats...anyway, I can't imagine its ANY worse than what they might have been exposed to around LA.

Wilmette in my opinion is not boring. It is near the lake, has some beautiful homes and wooded streets. Its a hop and skip from the city and Evanston. If you are from California, you would not consider these distances a remotley big deal. ....its practically the same town.

I think you are doing a good job of narrowing this down on your own, I think your instincts are telling you the right things. Yes, the Jewish communities are large in the places you named.

PS. The Michigan side has THE BEST BEACHES!!!! In the summer time I often leave my place in the north suburbs at 5am just to beat the traffic and get over there and spend a great day or weekend. But its a short enough drive if you do it at the right times for an awesome day trip. The water quality and beach/sand quality over there is 10 times better, and they have awesome dunes for climbing and watching the sunset. Everyone there swims in the water and Gary, IN seems a world away form there.

Good luck

[InformedConsent]

Here's the alphabetical list of US News Gold, Silver, and Bronze Medal winning high schools in Illinois:
Best High Schools Search - US News and World Report

Same list by Medal awarded (Gold is ranked numerically, Silver and Bronze are each listed alphabetically):
Best High Schools Search - US News and World Report

US News analyzed 18,790 public high schools. The top 100 high schools nationwide with the highest college readiness index scores were awarded Gold Medals and ranked numerically. The next 405 top-performing high schools nationwide based on their college readiness index earned Silver Medals. An additional 1,086 high schools that passed the first two selection steps were awarded Bronze Medals.

Of course the Gold Medal high schools are good. But, I would also be very comfortable sending my kids to any of the Silver Medal winning schools, as well. After all, they're among the top 505 out of 18,790 high schools in the U.S. - the top 2.7% - and these top high schools' effectiveness in educating all of their students was a primary selection criteria.

[310man]

So I guess it's between Wilmette and Lincoln Park because I can afford more in Wilmette, but Lincoln Park is more urban. However, the short distance between Wilmette and Evanston will be like nothing to us coming from LA, especially with better public transportation, as rgb123 said.

It's now down to school performance and purely personal opinion, so I will just have to do some extensive research on both neighborhoods and see which area gets me the best houses.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

What are you talking about?

Sorry, I meant Newsweek's methodology, which you probably knew because it's specifically described in the S&P methodology overview in the link you provided. So you might have politely pointed out the obvious error instead of being smarmy about it.

At any rate, while USN's criteria are more complete, I'm still a little skeptical of the methodology, especially given some of the schools that are on the list and some that are not. Here's the "core principals" of their methodology:

1) the best high schools serve all students well by achieving performance levels in the core subjects of reading and math on state accountability tests that exceed statistical expectations given their relative levels of student poverty;

"2) the best high schools serve the least advantaged student groups well by
producing proficiency rates on state tests for black, Hispanic, and
economically disadvantaged students that exceed state averages for these
groups;


"3) the best high schools provide students with access to a college-level
curriculum, measured through participation and performance on AP tests.

So in other words, in the first two categories if minority and disadvantaged groups perform dismally on these metrics (and unfortunately they do in Illinois), then all a school has to do to meet those criteria is exceed this dismal performance by a nominal amount. Then throw in some good AP test scores, and congrats, you get a medal. So if you have a lot of poor and minority students who are doing only slightly less dismally than the state average for their respective groupings alongside a bunch of white upper-middle-class kids who do well on AP exams, voila, you've passed the grade.

This obviously oversimplifies matters and there are some genuinely good schools on that list... but check out the HUGE performance gaps between black and white at LPHS at schoolmatters.com. I have a hard time believing any school should be getting a "gold star" ranking when 65% of the school's black population are below proficiency for reading and math. I just don't trust a methodology that gives a gold star to a school that profoundly lets down a substantial chunk of its student body like that. Like someone mentioned, LPHS is great if your kid gets into the IB program. What about the rest? And check out the parent satisfaction survey through the link chet provides... what accounts for the huge gap between the parents' and USN's respective estimations of the school?

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by Drover

So in other words, in the first two categories if minority and disadvantaged groups perform dismally on these metrics (and unfortunately they do in Illinois), then all a school has to do to meet those criteria is exceed this dismal performance by a nominal amount. Then throw in some good AP test scores, and congrats, you get a medal. So if you have a lot of poor and minority students who are doing only slightly less dismally than the state average for their respective groupings alongside a bunch of white upper-middle-class kids who do well on AP exams, voila, you've passed the grade.

The key factor is that black, Hispanic, and economically disadvantaged students are exceeding the state averages at the medal winning schools. The same is not true for the 17,199 schools that didn't even make it to the Bronze Medal level (Bronze Medal winning schools did not meet the AP success evaluation criterial).

What does that say for all of the CPS and suburban high schools whose black, Hispanic, and economically disadvantaged students fare even worse than the students at Lincoln Park HS?

[Lookout Kid]

310man, I would say visit the area and make your choice. But realize that Chicago is a city that many people of means choose to raise their kids in. It's not like most urban areas in the U.S. in that respect. There is a culture of "staying in the city" here, and there are services to support that lifestyle for families. They just cost a lot. Also realize that Lincoln Park is probably closer to New York than L.A.--especially along the lakefront. So people of means also live in apartments. You could definitely get a large condo or Co-op near the lake for your price range, and there would be other families living there too.

Wilmette and Lincoln Park are nothing alike. If you want an urban experience (which is what you were hinting at initially), Wilmette is not going to offer that. So this is why people were reacting with shock when you intially talked about Wilmette. It's NOTHING like Santa Monica or Manhattan beach. It's a typcial suburb--though it's a bit nicer than most and has good schools.