girls from Michigan (Chicago, Evanston, Westchester: home, university, live)

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

since other midwestern cities are

1. with the exception of Milwaukee . . . kind of far away
2. are not as big and international, so Chicago seems (justifiably) like the most world class of world class cities.

Change "midwestern" to "northwestern", southeastern, southern, or western (with the exception of California), and you have the same issues. Other than California and the Northeast, most "world class cities" stand alone in their regions.

[Tex?Il?]

I was commenting more on the fact that the sophisticated, urbane, cosmopolitan lifestyle that visitors see in downtown and environs of Chicago does NOT reflect the culture of the greater region. Even though a lot of suburbanites think they are part of this.

One of my good friends (lives in Westchester):

she takes the bible literally/thinks the earth is 7,000 years old, sends "make english official language/anti-immigration" e-mails all the time, talks about it. Complains of Mexican neighbors playing Mariachi, totally against any form of universal health care, likes plain pop/dance music (nothing bordering weird, she thinks B-52s Rock Lobster is too weird for her), not conversative exactly, but in most ways is.

Yet, she loves having the variety of ethnic restaurants, and could never live in a place that does not have a wide variety of restaurants, hates country music of any kind, (thinks the Grateful Dead sounds too hilbilly?). Can not see how rodeo might be a sport just like football or baseball.

She also gives me a hard time about renting instead of owning and thinks anyone who doesn't own a home has not "grown up."??

And do get the sense that she thinks people who teach liberal studies/general education classes: history, geography is a geek almost that if you have a government job, its not a "real job."

I mean come on, what do you want? make up your mind? Your somewhat anti-immigration, yet you can't live without good ethnic restaurants?

To me, this kind of averageness, is what leads me to post saying that Chicagoland seems reather "bland and middle-American" in regards to many of the people around here.

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

I was commenting more on the fact that the sophisticated, urbane, cosmopolitan lifestyle that visitors see in downtown and environs of Chicago does NOT reflect the culture of the greater region. Even though a lot of suburbanites think they are part of this.

One of my good friends (lives in Westchester):

she takes the bible literally/thinks the earth is 7,000 years old, sends "make english official language/anti-immigration" e-mails all the time, talks about it. Complains of Mexican neighbors playing Mariachi, totally against any form of universal health care, likes plain pop/dance music (nothing bordering weird, she thinks B-52s Rock Lobster is too weird for her), not conversative exactly, but in most ways is.

Yet, she loves having the variety of ethnic restaurants, and could never live in a place that does not have a wide variety of restaurants, hates country music of any kind, (thinks the Grateful Dead sounds too hilbilly?). Can not see how rodeo might be a sport just like football or baseball.

She also gives me a hard time about renting instead of owning and thinks anyone who doesn't own a home has not "grown up."??

And do get the sense that she thinks people who teach liberal studies/general education classes: history, geography is a geek almost that if you have a government job, its not a "real job."

I mean come on, what do you want? make up your mind? Your somewhat anti-immigration, yet you can't live without good ethnic restaurants?

To me, this kind of averageness, is what leads me to post saying that Chicagoland seems reather "bland and middle-American" in regards to many of the people around here.

London has lots of zenophobic amitimmigration, uneducated types too. The average citizen of most places is, well, average.

Chicago has more in common with London & NYC in terms of the educated classes than its does with its sister cities in the midwest.

I'm curious though( and I don't mean this in any negative way), what major cities have you lived in? The stereotypical New Yorker is very far from the average New Yorker, just as the average Londoner doesn't have much in common with the stereotypical Londoner.

[Lookout Kid]

Westchester? Isn't that a ritzy suburban county outside of NYC?

Through Google I now know that there is a Westchester, IL, but I had never heard of it before today. To suggest that a strange ultra-conservative woman (yes, her beliefs are strange here in the Midwest) who lives in some obscure distant suburb of Chicago is somehow representative of the entire region is really, really asinine. Many of my relatives are from small Wisconsin towns with more cows than traffic lights, and are well-educated professionals who are into fine wine and culture, and have liberal beliefs. Your attempt to stereotype midwesterners based on a uniquely strange individual isn't convincing to anyone with half a clue.

[alwaystraveling25]

Originally Posted by michsnowlvr

Found this old thread when looking for something else, but just wanted to comment on some things. First of all, yes Detroit is going through bad times. But some of the comments on here are GREATLY exaggerated. Living in metro-Detroit my entire life and visiting metro-Chicago several times, I can tell you straight up that in my opinion, both areas are nice and have bad areas, and while Chicago is no doubt a better city, I'd actually say the surrounding area is nicer in SE MI.

Comparing Detroit and Chicago- the cities- is one thing, but to say there is nothing to do in all of southeast Michigan? Give me a break. There is plenty to do in the area. Outside of the city-proper of CHI/DET, I can guarentee there is just as much to do in southeast MI as there is in northeast IL.

Suburbanites of Detroit don't dare venture into Detroit? Again, no. Suburbanites go to downtown Detroit all the time, and downtown Detroit is actually relatively safe. Yes, crime runs rampant in other parts of the city, and no, suburbanites dont go to those areas. Many of the Detroit suburbs are very visually appealing, while the city (downtown an exception) is not. So yes, people make it known that they LIVE in Novi, or Farmington, or Canton, or wherever, rather than say they live "IN" Detroit. That does not mean they loathe the city and dream of moving to Chicago.

The MI transplants who have spoken in this thread obviously love Chicago, or else they wouldnt be living where they are. But don't make it a generalization that most Michiganders feel the same way. That most Michiganders who live in SE MI are embarassed of living near Detroit. And that most Ann Arbor people are very quick to distance themselves from metro-Detroit. That is flat-out wrong.

My friends and I have visited Chicago many times. LOVED shopping downtown, hated the ghetto area we stayed (boystown- the gay area of CHI). Hope this response doesn't sound like bashing Chicago, because it's not in any way. Just that as a MI resident, I felt the need to correct a few of the embellished things. Will I visit the Chicago area again? Definitely. Do I want to remain living in the Detroit area? Absolutely.

Wow. Absolutely Wow.

I grew up "Downriver", and although Wyandotte is definitely nicer then Taylor, you could not pay me enough to move back to Wayne County/Downriver area. Sure, there are things to do there for people, as there are in any suburban/bedroom community.

But the Jobs in Michigan are in the pits. Everyone I know from college that moved home to Metro Detroit only did so for their parents/familys/relationship. So many of us transplanted to Chicago for a better economy, better careers, and to live in a world-class city.

I live in Boystown. It is EXTREMELY expensive to live in East Lakeview compared to Detroit. My friend who lives in Berkeley, MI pays 1100 a month for a 2BR/BA apartment that is newly rehabbed. I live in a 1BR/1BA with no dishwasher, washer/dryer, and window air for 1200 a month. Boystown is very gentrified and is certainly not "ghetto" in anyway.

When I first moved here, it felt a lot more "urban" to me, cause there are no nice parking lots, their are dumpsters in the alley, and so many people take the bus/train instead of driving everywhere. You might interpret this as ghetto, but it's not.

I looked it up online, and the median income for 60657 is 55,000 a year (which encompasses Boystown south of Addison). I would hardly call that ghetto.

[hsw]

Aside from a few highly educated, rather affluent neighborhoods/suburbs in a few elite regions like NYC or Chic or SF or LA, one can easily find versions of Cleveland or Dallas or Orlando or (insert some iteration of Podunk) around any of these allegedly sophisticated regions...

Visit most parts of SF region (esp EastBay), NYC's outer boroughs and NJ/LI suburbs, LA ex-Westside....median education/IQ/affluence dramatically converges upon Cleveland/Detroit/Orlando/Dallas, etc levels....and the allegedly upscale suburbs in less-educated parts of NJ, OC, etc have an amusing trailer-park-deluxe culture that's interchangeable w/that of dozens of other similar suburbs across US...

Perhaps most interesting is that many of the most affluent young high-achievers in places like Manhattan or SiliconValley are guys who grew up in and attended mediocre public schools in middle-class suburbs of Podunk, often from Midwest or NJ, etc....part of why NYC/SF/Chic/LA are so economically and intellectually interesting is that they are cosmopolitan regions that attract smart people from all over US and RoW

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by alwaystraveling25

Wow. Absolutely Wow.

I grew up "Downriver", and although Wyandotte is definitely nicer then Taylor, you could not pay me enough to move back to Wayne County/Downriver area. Sure, there are things to do there for people, as there are in any suburban/bedroom community.

But the Jobs in Michigan are in the pits. Everyone I know from college that moved home to Metro Detroit only did so for their parents/familys/relationship. So many of us transplanted to Chicago for a better economy, better careers, and to live in a world-class city.

I live in Boystown. It is EXTREMELY expensive to live in East Lakeview compared to Detroit. My friend who lives in Berkeley, MI pays 1100 a month for a 2BR/BA apartment that is newly rehabbed. I live in a 1BR/1BA with no dishwasher, washer/dryer, and window air for 1200 a month. Boystown is very gentrified and is certainly not "ghetto" in anyway.

When I first moved here, it felt a lot more "urban" to me, cause there are no nice parking lots, their are dumpsters in the alley, and so many people take the bus/train instead of driving everywhere. You might interpret this as ghetto, but it's not.

I looked it up online, and the median income for 60657 is 55,000 a year (which encompasses Boystown south of Addison). I would hardly call that ghetto.

I pulled the data for Wyandotte after reading your post

Median Income - $45,600
House/Condo Value $145,100
Adults with college degrees - 12.7%

I think Wyandotte sounds more ghetto than Boystown to me. It sort of proves my point theat suburban Detroiters never go into the city. If he thinks East Lakeview is ghetto, he's obviously never been in the city of Detroit beyond a HS field trip to the DIA (okay kids, as soon as the bus stops, jump out and runnnnn thru the front doors!!!) or the Ren Cen.

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by hsw

..

Visit most parts of SF region (esp EastBay), NYC's outer boroughs and NJ/LI suburbs, LA ex-Westside....median education/IQ/affluence dramatically converges upon Cleveland/Detroit/Orlando/Dallas, etc levels....and the allegedly upscale suburbs in less-educated parts of NJ, OC, etc have an amusing trailer-park-deluxe culture that's interchangeable w/that of dozens of other similar suburbs across US...

I am so stealing this phrase. You have a great writing style.

ETA - should I share the phrase "Upper White Trash"?

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Westchester? Isn't that a ritzy suburban county outside of NYC?

Through Google I now know that there is a Westchester, IL, but I had never heard of it before today. To suggest that a strange ultra-conservative woman (yes, her beliefs are strange here in the Midwest) who lives in some obscure distant suburb of Chicago is somehow representative of the entire region is really, really asinine. Many of my relatives are from small Wisconsin towns with more cows than traffic lights, and are well-educated professionals who are into fine wine and culture, and have liberal beliefs. Your attempt to stereotype midwesterners based on a uniquely strange individual isn't convincing to anyone with half a clue.

Westchester isnt distant. Its directly west not even in DuPage County/west of 294.

Exactly my point!! You say your relatives in small-town Wisconsin have liberal beliefs and like and wine and culture!! Exactly my point. I grew here in the suburbs, and have lived in a few rural areas for jobs/college and after seeing sophisticated people in "podunkville" I got annoyed with Chicagoans suggesting otherwise.

There is a reason why I particularly support the belief that country-folk educated in their own ways. My career is in natural resources and geography and to me since I teach this stuff . .

anyone who can interpret a topgraphic map, knows their local native flora, knows how long the growing season is, knows how much an acre is, knows the relationship between surface water, groundwater, the water table and welling drilling, knows what a ridge is, (pretty basic stuff to me) is smarter than someone who is ignorant of this. And since knowledge of this stuff is important to me, I get frustrated teaching some urban/surburbanites at the college level, I do get frustrated because I know I might have an easier time teaching this stuff in a more rural/small environment.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by hsw

Aside from a few highly educated, rather affluent neighborhoods/suburbs in a few elite regions like NYC or Chic or SF or LA, one can easily find versions of Cleveland or Dallas or Orlando or (insert some iteration of Podunk) around any of these allegedly sophisticated regions...

Visit most parts of SF region (esp EastBay), NYC's outer boroughs and NJ/LI suburbs, LA ex-Westside....median education/IQ/affluence dramatically converges upon Cleveland/Detroit/Orlando/Dallas, etc levels....and the allegedly upscale suburbs in less-educated parts of NJ, OC, etc have an amusing trailer-park-deluxe culture that's interchangeable w/that of dozens of other similar suburbs across US...

Perhaps most interesting is that many of the most affluent young high-achievers in places like Manhattan or SiliconValley are guys who grew up in and attended mediocre public schools in middle-class suburbs of Podunk, often from Midwest or NJ, etc....part of why NYC/SF/Chic/LA are so economically and intellectually interesting is that they are cosmopolitan regions that attract smart people from all over US and RoW

What the hell? The places are still big cities!

Cleveland and Detroit I understand

Actually many sunbelt cities have a higher percentge of people with college degrees. Texas cities: from what I read, and I could find sources: Dallas, Houston, and Austin (and Atlanta in Georgia) all have a higher precentage of residents with a college degree and those that work in the sciences.

Then you have Ralieigh/research triangle in North Carolina. Minneapolis (and of course Madison) also rank higher in this area as well.

What is with this attitude that Chicago, L.A., San Fran, and New York are the cultured places and everywhere else might as well be small towns?