Is the Southside really that bad? (Chicago, Chatham: living in, gym, versus)

[ManheimMadman]

Originally Posted by Iamme73

I came on this board looking to get info about the Kenwood, and Bronzeville areas of Chicago.

Why do people give "opinions" about areas they don't even live in, and are clearly are afraid of?

It is a shame that a board supposedly about real estate "seems" to have so much of a racial undercurrent to many of the comments about which neighborhoods are good and which aren't.

I WISH posters would stick to what they know and stop giving "societal" analysis.

If you deem an area undersirable FINE why not state that instead of dragging "race" into the picture?

Calling areas "war zones" and the like is NONSENSE. You don't know what it is like to live there unless you do, and my guess is MOST on this board when speaking about southside areas or areas with more than a 30% black population have zero to little first hand experience outside of their racial fears, nightly news reports, and crime stats they CLING to in order to justify their "feelings".

There is SIMPLY a wealth of research that documents EXACTLY what happened in many southside neighborhoods.

Many people have extremely SHORT memories and very ignorant views.

Many people of caucasian descent FORGET the EXTREME amount of government assistance white families were given in establishing middle class neighborhoods and lives.

They forget NEW DEAL programs that made homeownership more of a norm for MILLIONS of white families who previously had NEVER owned anything.
They forget about the GI BIll that affording millions of mostly wm to go to college, they forget about the high way and transportation bills that made it possible for their to BE suburbs in the first place.

For the FIRST time in the starting in the late 40's, the 50's, and the 60's a LARGE middle class was established in this country in part BECAUSE of those programs.

Finally and most importantly they forget how those VERY things were DENIED to black people.

I understand that people don't care about history or facts when looking for a safe neighborhood and good schools.

I understand that MOST people simply aren't that knowledgeable
about history and certianly not racial discrimination.

But if you want to start casting insults and associating MILLIONS of individual human beings with crime, immorality, poverty, etc, on the basis of their racial heritage OR economic status, WITHOUT taking ALL the facts into consideration, that doesn't make you a person with an "opinion", that makes you an uninformed bigot AND part of the problem.

Crime stats don't lie. If I see that Greater Grand Crossing has 13 murders in the last six months, Englewood has 11, and South Shore has 11...guess what? "War Zone", while somewhat harsh, may sum it up. There are no insults being cast, just facts. Nobody needs to live in these areas to know that it sucks. I certainly don't want to be in a community that one lives in fear of being murdered like the other 13, but if you want to- go ahead.

[ManheimMadman]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

It is a shame you are so ignorant yourself. You are part of the problem not the solution.

Thank you for being more eloquent than I.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Iamme73

Calling areas "war zones" and the like is NONSENSE. You don't know what it is like to live there unless you do, and my guess is MOST on this board when speaking about southside areas or areas with more than a 30% black population have zero to little first hand experience outside of their racial fears, nightly news reports, and crime stats they CLING to in order to justify their "feelings".

Personally, I had always thought the negative perceptions of poor neighborhoods like Englewood, Woodlawn, etc. were wildly exaggerated, that is until I starting reading the daily testimonials from residents of these neighborhoods claiming to be prisoners in their own homes, living in a war zone, terrified to step outside, describing daily unreported gunfire, etc. Maybe you live in one of these neighborhoods and want to give us a different view.

[ManheimMadman]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

Personally, I had always thought the negative perceptions of poor neighborhoods like Englewood, Woodlawn, etc. were wildly exaggerated, that is until I starting reading the daily testimonials from residents of these neighborhoods claiming to be prisoners in their own homes, living in a war zone, terrified to step outside, describing daily unreported gunfire, etc. Maybe you live in one of these neighborhoods and want to give us a different view.

Yes, I would appreciate this view too.

My English professor moved to Chicago back in the early 60's, and boy wouldn't you know it- West Englewood wasn't TOO bad back then (so he says). He tells us all the macabre things going on in his community. As he gets up there in age, he tells us how he'd like to spend his senior years in peace outside, maybe for a nightly stroll. That could probably not happen without bad things to follow. So yeah, he truly feels like a prisoner in his own home.

[Humboldt1]

Lamme,

It is a shame that you are so articulate but have a huge chip on your shoulder and sense of entitlement.

How were the suburbs denied to black people. Many of the best and brightest black people abandoned their neighborhoods for greener pastures in the burbs.

I have first-hand experience with blacks as many of my neighbors are black, not affluent people like those who moved to the burbs but people struggling to get by.

Just because I and a number of other posters on here don't buy into your "white's got all this stuff and blacks did not" argument does not make us ignorant.

You seem intelligent, albeit narrow-minded. If more people such as yourself would stay in their neighborhoods and make them better instead of leaving or just complaining many of these neighborhoods on the west and south sides could become once again areas where people want to live and don't fear for their lives.

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

How were the suburbs denied to black people.

There was an awful lot of institutional racism that led to many of the best suburbs being denied to blacks. Ever heard of redlining?

Redlining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That being said... an awful lot of the "best and the brightest" blacks were able to move out of the black ghettos, the shop owners and educators who were looked to as role models and pillars of the black community.

Imagine what would happen if only the trashiest and least educated whites were left in a neighborhood (like those nasty girls from Rock of Love or similar)... the result wouldn't be pretty.

[oscottscotto]

Originally Posted by Iamme73

I WISH posters would stick to what they know and stop giving "societal" analysis.

Yes, but in the real world people discuss their societal views and learn from each other ... even if it means learning by recognizing when someone else is expressing inaccurate views. I can't tell you how much I have learned by simply disagreeing with what someone has said and then doing my own research to find out if what I believed was the truth. So I would not discourage discussion on issues just because you disagree with a few things said by certain individuals. Plus, this would be quite a boring forum and it would get much less traffic if people did not hold open discussions on societal views regarding a city's makeup and happenings.

[ajolotl]

I agree entirely. I'm personally a bit surprised (sometimes even shocked) by some of the racial attitudes I see expressed on this forum. I had assumed, until very recently, that white flight was mostly last generation's phenomenon and integrated neighborhoods were the ideal for most younger people. Maybe I was a bit naive. I do think, though, that it is much more productive for people to honestly state their viewpoint rather than constantly being muzzled by the pc censors. Open discussion is healthy, and I don't think it's realistic to discuss Chicago neighborhoods without bringing in racial demographics, as far as this is from the ideal.

[aragx6]

You'd have to know the ages of all the people on this board to make assumptions about it being a thing of the last generation- we've had kids as young as 15 on this forum and people who are well into their septuagenarian status.

[ManheimMadman]

Originally Posted by aragx6

You'd have to know the ages of all the people on this board to make assumptions about it being a thing of the last generation- we've had kids as young as 15 on this forum and people who are well into their septuagenarian status.

This makes sense. I'm relatively young (25), but I know my parents (46) are slightly racist, and my grandparents (72) are vehemently racist. I think it has decreased by generation- but I know 14 year old kids who are more racist than my grandparents due to viral parenting.