Is the Southside really that bad? (Chicago, Oak Park: voucher, living, stats)

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by prairiestate

This all we've been trying to say here, where the accusations of racism comes from, I can't fathom. It is interesting to say that you feel safe there. I'm genuinely curious to know why that is? Perhaps the targets of the shootings are gang members, but plenty of innocent people get caught in the crossfire. And if there are a lot of shootings, there is probably a lot of other crime like robberies. So, this is an area I wouldn't want to spend much time in, and I am kind of baffled that one could feel safe there.

It depends on which stat you look at and how you interpret it. For example, the 9 shootings took place over only 3 episodes (not great but still better than 9). These were obviously not random events and had nothing to do with me. While it may seem like a shooting gallery from the outside 99.99% of the time it is peaceful -- there are no thugs on street corners, no one harassing anyone, quite a few families out with their kids. It is pretty quiet and peaceful. I'm not aware of break-ins or other crimes (not that they don't happen but I doubt they are very common in that immediate area). Furthermore, the trend has been for the thugs to leave the area, so my optimistic view is that each shooting will be the last. I think I would have to get incredibly unlucky to get caught in any crossfire. In fact it is unlikely enough that I don't even consider it. Also, just to the north it is very prosperous, so you don't get the sense of being buried in a war zone.

Not that I love the neighborhood but for whatever reason it doesn't worry me at all.

[Humboldt1]

With that many shootings I would move.

I think Lemme is a troll.

I may not always agree with Manigault (I would certainly choose Kenilworth over Englewood anyday) but they live on the south side and know what they are talking about. Some person who has never lived in Chicago commenting about how we posters who actually live in and have been in these "bad" areas don't know what they are talking about. They are only trying to cause trouble, not good dialogue.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Now that last post is very interesting to me, since I'm sitting on the south side as I type this. I've been in Englewood frequently in the last few months, both to have my car fixed, to go to the bank at 63rd and Halsted and to check out the construction of the new Kennedy-King College. And I certainly know folks who live in Englewood. But the comments of folks far removed from the area have convinced me that they are much more knowlegable about the south side than myself. So I guess I'll just move to Kenilworth.

Your chances of getting harmed running errands in the day in Englewood are next to zero (my mechanic is there also). From what I understand living there is a different story. Not that I've every witnessed anything bad myself, but I have heard so many testimonials from residents that I'm hesitant to doubt their truth.

[Humboldt1]

Your odds of getting caught in gang crossfire are next to zero on any given night in any neighborhood. However, my odds of getting shot in gang crossfire on the south side in areas such as Englewood are infinitely more so than in areas such as Lincoln Park (though it is still possible). It is bad enough in the northern parts of Humboldt Park. I can only imagine what people in areas such as Englewood have to go thru. If my odds of getting shot in Englewood are 1 in a million and 1 in 100 million in a safer neighborhood, guess where I choose to live.

Englewood and many of the rundown southside and westside neighborhoods just aren't safe folks, no matter how you crunch the numbers.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Your odds of getting caught in gang crossfire are next to zero on any given night in any neighborhood. However, my odds of getting shot in gang crossfire on the south side in areas such as Englewood are infinitely more so than in areas such as Lincoln Park (though it is still possible). It is bad enough in the northern parts of Humboldt Park. I can only imagine what people in areas such as Englewood have to go thru. If my odds of getting shot in Englewood are 1 in a million and 1 in 100 million in a safer neighborhood, guess where I choose to live.

Englewood and many of the rundown southside and westside neighborhoods just aren't safe folks, no matter how you crunch the numbers.

I'm going to guess that people who live in Englewood would also prefer to live in Lincoln Park.

For north woodlawn, I think my extra odds of getting caught in crossfire are swamped by the reduction in danger of not having to drive to work every day on a highway (I actually only stay in Woodlawn a few nights a week, have a house in East Beverly now, but at least that was my feeling when I lived there full time). Also saves a lot of money and time with commute. When you put everything together it's a good choice for a lot of people.

[Manigault]

I've changed my mind. I'm moving to Inverness like Rich Williamson and Peter Fitzgerald, an IL GOP senatorial wannabee and a one-termer.

[noid_1985]

Originally Posted by NearWestSider

Englewood is thug city, dude. When they tore the projects down, the trash moved down there. It took a couple of years of gang wars for the situation to stabilize, but the war is over and the bad guys won. They have driven many, if not most, of the long-term residents out and replaced it with a gypsy thief-culture where kids are raised to steal from the time they can walk. Anybody who doesn't like it had better get home early and lock their doors, and anyone who calls the cops will get a bullet in the head and you can rest assured that nobody will ever see anything.

Englewood was a rough area before the projects were torn down. In fact most people who lived in the projects were displaced to far suburbs like Carpentersville, North Chicago, Waukegan, Joliet, Aurora, Kankakee, and even Rockford. The people who remained in the city were the ones who either no longer used the public housing program or people who got low income waviers to move out of the city but used them for places in the city.

[NearWestSider]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Now that last post is very interesting to me, since I'm sitting on the south side as I type this. I've been in Englewood frequently in the last few months, both to have my car fixed, to go to the bank at 63rd and Halsted and to check out the construction of the new Kennedy-King College. And I certainly know folks who live in Englewood. But the comments of folks far removed from the area have convinced me that they are much more knowlegable about the south side than myself. So I guess I'll just move to Kenilworth.

You are also not in Englewood working with people trying to rehab buildings, hearing stories about electrical service lines being cut from the pole for beer money, or glass block basement windows being busted out with sledge hammers so people can steal the water heaters, or walking through buildings that are abandoned because the tenants were so dangerous the property managers had to condemn the buildings to get rid of them.

THAT, oh naive one, is the reality of Englewood, and it is as far removed from your lilly-white utopia of Hyde Park as the North Shore suburbs are, despite its (relative) geographic proximity.

[NearWestSider]

Originally Posted by noid_1985

Englewood was a rough area before the projects were torn down. In fact most people who lived in the projects were displaced to far suburbs like Carpentersville, North Chicago, Waukegan, Joliet, Aurora, Kankakee, and even Rockford. The people who remained in the city were the ones who either no longer used the public housing program or people who got low income waviers to move out of the city but used them for places in the city.

Do you have any numbers to back that up, because that is NOT what I am hearing from the long-term residents of South Shore, Chatham, etc, who are complaining the the CHA's "plan for transformation" is in reality a plan for transforming THEIR neighborhoods into ghettos.

I know the CHA is a convenient excuse and a wonderful target, so if their is any hard data on this, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by NearWestSider

THAT, oh naive one, is the reality of Englewood, and it is as far removed from your lilly-white utopia of Hyde Park as the North Shore suburbs are, despite its (relative) geographic proximity.

Since Hyde Park is only about 40% white (for the last 30 years) I will discount your rant by the same percentage and judge your remarks accordingly.