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Old 07-06-2008, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,673,082 times
Reputation: 665
I think south side appeal is a little clearer when cost is factored in. I scoured the city for a few years looking for the best neighborhood for my tastes and circumstances (young kids who needs space). By far Beverly had the most to offer per dollar. There were other places on the north side that I liked more (e.g. Evanston -- there is no sense denying this), but not even close for the price. That's just my taste, though -- I love historic neighborhoods, the hills, variety of architecture, walkability, and a little bit of an urban buzz, some interesting characters around, etc. Being on a bit of an island of prosperity also creates a great feeling of bonding and community among residents (similar to Hyde Park back in the day -- neighboring areas are more prosperous now). Many of my coworkers live in Naperville. I hated it. No edge at all. I can certainly see though why someone would prefer Naperville. Just not my taste. You have to also consider that some people actually work on the south side and don't want to commute through the city.

I have no fear at all driving to city or Hyde Park through south side neighborhoods. The main streets streets (Halsted, Ashland, Garfield, etc.) are mostly poor but pretty heavily trafficked with people going about their daily business, and tens of thousands of commuters pass through every day without incident. I occasionally even stop in Englewood or Chatham to get gas or buy something with no sense of danger at all. I still think the act of driving itself is 100x more dangerous than anything one would encounter on a typical drive through the south side.

 
Old 07-06-2008, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,673,082 times
Reputation: 665
For the record, I realize that Evanston is not part of Chicago.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,338 posts, read 4,816,175 times
Reputation: 775
Default crimew related to affluence, not race

I certainly disdain ghetto blacks or ghetto people of any race, having had a number of negative experiences with ghetto blacks but even I conceed it is a class thing, not a race thing that makes neighborhoods on the south side bad.

People with money, regardless of race, will move around other people with money. This typically leaves the poor to fend for themselves in areas like Englewood, leading to all kinds of problems. It is too bad but essentially people with means and the ability to get out have in this areas. They have been abandoned, quite often by people of the same race as those who are left behind.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 02:08 PM
 
Location: South Side
3,555 posts, read 6,389,279 times
Reputation: 1174
Now wouldn't it be great if people who are plain, old working stiffs and the people of means do not flee to the suburbs to leave the poor to fend on their own? Then the stores in the communities would continue to be viable, along with other amenities. Jobs would stay in the communities and even the schools would not slide into oblivion.

To an extent, that's what happened on the south side.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Around Chicago
859 posts, read 1,853,911 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
Well, methinks you protest too much. No one called anyone a racist.

I think this board experiences just benign neglect sometimes. Did you see the thread on watching the fireworks? There just was no thought that this could be done quite reasonably from the beaches on the south side. It just did not receive consideration.
I just came back from the 63rd St. Beach and it was great. I can't believe someone wouldn't want to go there.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,673,082 times
Reputation: 665
Good point. Taking a day off during the week when it's not too crowded and reading in that courtyard next to the 63rd street beach while the kids run in the fountains is one of my favorite things to do. It's a hidden treasure of chicago. I also love to grill right on the beach behind the South Shore cultural Center (71st). I watched July 3rd fireworks from The Point (55th and Lake) with family which I highly recommend. I can't say any of these places are necessarily nicer than similar things on north side, but they are definitely on par and worth checking out for a change of pace.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Illinois
107 posts, read 215,308 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
I certainly disdain ghetto blacks or ghetto people of any race, having had a number of negative experiences with ghetto blacks but even I conceed it is a class thing, not a race thing that makes neighborhoods on the south side bad.

People with money, regardless of race, will move around other people with money. This typically leaves the poor to fend for themselves in areas like Englewood, leading to all kinds of problems. It is too bad but essentially people with means and the ability to get out have in this areas. They have been abandoned, quite often by people of the same race as those who are left behind.
Very true. However, there is no such thing as a poor white area of Chicago that is inhabited by the same percentage of whites as in similar, predominantly black areas. This makes black poverty much more visible and more identifiable to those "on the watch". Poor white areas riddled with crime as much as the South Side? I can't even begin to think of somewhere that matches that description. What about poor, crime ridden Asian neighborhoods? Yea right.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,673,082 times
Reputation: 665
I think that's true in part but in my experience it isn't the whole story -- ie there is a purely racial component that has little to do with income, social class, etc. It's not my ideal but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't observed it my whole life.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,338 posts, read 4,816,175 times
Reputation: 775
Default racial component

There is certainly a racial component but many of the problems come from a culture of entitlement where people are encouraged to not work and rely upon the govt and where the govt financially rewards people for having too many kids (ie food stamps, sec8, etc).

I have seen this with puerto ricans as well as blacks in humboldt park. I saw this somewhat with rural whites (wt) growing up but it was less concentrated and perhaps this is less pervasive in this culture. Mexicans do not qualify for many govt programs due to citizenship issues. If they did, I suspect they would have many of the same problems as the puerto ricans, who are citizens. Hopefully, the second generation born here will not fall into this trap of entitlement.

Getting back to the last poster, there is something inherently wrong with a culture where "baby's mommas" are the rule rather than the exception. With 75 percent of blacks being born out of wedlock, they have a distinct disadvantage from the start, though one that can be overcome if they so choose. It is ultimately up to us what we end up being. Some of us just have easier choices to make than others.

Regardless of income, someone who has girls on the side and has fathered children that they may not even know about is low class to me. This is something that transcinds race or income or education level.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Illinois
107 posts, read 215,308 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
Regardless of income, someone who has girls on the side and has fathered children that they may not even know about is low class to me. This is something that transcinds race or income or education level.
That doesn't solve the southside problem. We will never fix the lower half of our city until we stop beating around the bush> We both know this behavior is much more prevalent among certain races.
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