A few questions for Chicagoans (Paris: sales, public schools, university)

[j33]

Originally Posted by Ramo Nash

Wow this thread got pretty off topic. I thought I'd just temper some of my original statements a little with the acknowledgment that almost all of the things that I dislike about Chicago could be HUGE positives to others.

-- It's hugely un-snobby and overall pretty unpretentious. The people aren't very quick to judge others based on where they went to school.

So you like snobby pretentious people who judge you based on where you went to school?


I can understand perhaps liking some of the quicker more acerbic wit one often finds out east, I like it too, but that first statement throws me for a loop.

[Ramo Nash]

Originally Posted by j33

So you like snobby pretentious people who judge you based on where you went to school?


I can understand perhaps liking some of the quicker more acerbic wit one often finds out east, I like it too, but that first statement throws me for a loop.

Yeah, I appreciate a little bit of snobbery/criticalness, but I think that it can get to extremes in the northeast. I meant more that Chicago is just really the opposite of that. I don't know if the TS is even reading this anymore. However, I do know that what I'm saying about Chicago is exactly why a lot of people love it, but also why it's not ideal for others.

[j33]

I appreciate a bit of 'criticalness' too, but I don't necessarily place too much importance on where one attended college, I deal with people all the time who have ivy-league degrees, they can be just as obtuse and annoying as that person person who attended an Ag school. It is what you do with your education that counts (don't get me wrong, I realize, from a networking standpoint why the ivys are what they are, but having spoken with more than one Harvard undergrad about the actual academic side of things, I'm not convinced that they are truly leaps and bounds beyond all others).

Now when it comes to advanced degrees? That is another situation all together.

[neonwattagelimit]

I'm a sarcastic Northeasterner (is that even a word?) and I like Chicago! Guess it takes all kinds....I'm not very pretentious or artsy, though.

Eh, Ramo Nash is entitled to his opinion. I didn't really take issue with it. Word to the wise, though: next time, avoid using the phrase "flyover state." Whenever I see someone say that seriously, I laugh a little on the inside.

[UnderTheLiveOaks]

Originally Posted by j33

I appreciate a bit of 'criticalness' too, but I don't necessarily place too much importance on where one attended college, I deal with people all the time who have ivy-league degrees, they can be just as obtuse and annoying as that person person who attended an Ag school. It is what you do with your education that counts (don't get me wrong, I realize, from a networking standpoint why the ivys are what they are, but having spoken with more than one Harvard undergrad about the actual academic side of things, I'm not convinced that they are truly leaps and bounds beyond all others).

Now when it comes to advanced degrees? That is another situation all together.

Furthermore, I might add, The University of Chicago is on par, academically, with any institution in the nation. Some of the world's top minds (including one of the largest numbers of Nobel laureates in the nation and world) have been affiliated with U of C.

Furthermore, the very smartest people I know are also far from pretentious. It's the little minds and petty tyrants who seem to get off on lording their knowledge of Proust and yerba mate, and "why string theory is so passe" over others.

Then again, maybe I'm just so over "jaded"

[j33]

As a former English major, when people bring up Proust, I have to quell thoughts of doing them bodily harm.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Ramo Nash

Wow this thread got pretty off topic. I thought I'd just temper some of my original statements a little with the acknowledgment that almost all of the things that I dislike about Chicago could be HUGE positives to others.

-- It's hugely un-snobby and overall pretty unpretentious. The people aren't very quick to judge others based on where they went to school, for example.

-- Chicago definitely has that "honest, good people" vibe. It's just that I honestly prefer being around sarcastic bitter aholes (maybe slight exaggeration) who can appreciate the ridiculousness of the world we live in. I find a larger majority of the people in chicago to be sort of happy folk. Not happy go lucky, per se, but more "let's just go have some beers and have fun!" I don't find the kind of intense intellectual/critical vibe to be as strong here--it definitely exists though.

--Chicago has huge amounts of ethnic diversity compared to boston, which is a positive no matter how you look at it. Decent ethnic food of almost any type can be found here and there are often extensive neighborhoods with accompanying stores, etc.. For example, Devon Ave (Indian/Pakistani), Argyle (Vietnamese), Koreatown, Logan Square (Puerto Rican and Mexican).

-- It can be very easy to live here and parts of Chicago have an almost suburban feel in that regard--big box stores with parking lots, lots of shopping, chain stores everywhere, etc... Not that this isn't happening over the whole planet right now, though.

In summary, I'd say there is plenty to do here and if the "vibe" of the place feels right to you, you'll probably love it here. It sounds like you're pretty sick of boston, which is true of lots of people (especially people without roots there).

I do know what you mean regarding your first and second post. These are very good things. But I could see how this might affect possibly the creative side of Chicago?

I mean; for example I can't imagine "Family Guy" being created by a Chicagolander. I just can't, its not the mannerisms. There is something very "southern New England." People in Chicago love the show, but I couldn't imagine anyone having produced it.

Chicago is known for "Second City" comedy, but apart from the Superfans, you don't have demographic humor. Saturday night live had Coffee Talk making fun of Jewish New York women, there was Bronx Beat, a skit making fun of New Jerseyans.

What is there about Chicago stereotypes to make fun of, in a skit? Our outside areas?

There isn't much humor over making fun of geographical subgroups. Our "you know you are froms" are pretty lame.

We don't have nicknames for different suburbs. For exampleIf you check out the Metro Detroit forum, everyone has sneid nicknames for all the other suburbs and towns, etc.

In Chicago things are more "normal," laid back, and integrated (there's one Chicagoland). Theres just very little opportunity for geographically based humor it seems.

[Lookout Kid]

Only someone from the Northeast could ever complain about Chiago being "too spread out" in terms of development patterns... Have you ever seen the REST OF THE COUNTRY?!?

I've spent a lot of time in Boston, and I'd actually say it's just as fratboyish and sports obssessed as Chicago. There certainly is more intellectual concentration in "The Athens of America", but that's to be expected with the academic powerhouses of Boston. Nonetheless, there are plenty of ways to exercise your intellectual muscle in Chicago. Perhaps the arthouse theaters are slightly more empty, but that's because there are a lot of them. And we've also got the uber-arthouse Facet's Cinemateque which is a great resource for any film geek. The Gene Siskel Film Center is another amazing institution. It's all here, but in lower concentration.

The foodie scene is MUCH stronger in Chicago than Boston, but New York is obviously king.

The arts are better represented in Chicago, including our burgeoning theater scene.

Like every other city that's not New York, Chicago's rapid transit is set up in a star pattern. Therefore all trains go to and from the city center. This makes perpendicular travel more difficult as Ramo pointed out, but you already deal with that in Boston. And we have express busses! Car ownership is not necessary in many North Side neighborhoods.

I think Boston has some of the most beautiful urban residential neighborhoods in the country. I'm quite partial to rowhouses and small urban parks. Chicago doesn't have this same level of residential charm, but has it's own thing going on that's quite unique within the rest of the U.S. The East Coast is uniquely compact because of its age, and that doesn't really exist elsewhere in the country. The closest approximation you will find is Chicago or San Francisco, but our streets are wider and the grid rules all.

[Ramo Nash]

Yeah, the obsession that some people have with Ivys for undergrad is pretty ridiculous, especially as they are now infamous for grade inflation. U of C, for example, is most definitely equivalent in most subjects and far better in others.

My point was never that people from Chicago are not as smart or less educated--that simply isn't true. It's just that, even among well educated people, there is a different feel and it doesn't click with me. This may have something to do with values, the prevalent industries, who knows. On paper Chicago is (arguably) better than, for example, Boston or NYC in many ways, but my point was just that even if Chicago seems great to someone, they should realize that it is in fact pretty different culturally. Chicago definitely "has it all," but if there aren't so many people to enjoy it with, what's the point? Of course, these things work both ways and plenty of Chicagoans/Midwesterners find me utterly boring and the northeast intolerable.

And lastly, would anyone seriously disagree that much of Illinois/the midwest (aside from Chicago) is not "flyover" country to people not from here? I'd concede easily that some of the places I've lived in the northeast would be pretty horrid places for people to visit, but I love them just the same. Just seems like a silly thing to get upset about, especially given that it's such an overused and cliched term, but point taken.

[aragx6]

^^Actually I would never call anywhere flyover country. I've been most states and intend to visit them all.

I think they all have something to offer, whether it be urban or rural.

I can't think of a single state that has nothing worthwhile about it. Not a single one.