Man shot and wounded in Lake View/Man shot and killed in West Town (Chicago: 2010, apartment)

[Mister Mappy]

There was also a drive-by in Lincoln Park last week on Orchard just north of North Ave. I do think there is some low rise public housing on that corner still. No matter how "safe" an area might be, something could still happen.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

Grand and Wolcott is not in Ukrainian Village . Furthermore Grand and Wolcott is not considered a very safe area.

Where is your proof that the victim and/or the perp were drinking? I see none in your link nor in other stories I have read about this incident.

This seems like a jealousy and/or revenge killing.

No, most shootings in Chicago are gang related or robberies.

I wasn't saying this particular murder was drinking related, but any murder that begins with an argument in the street at 5 AM on a Sunday has a high chance of having alcohol involved. Many of the altercation type homicides that occur in the city do involve alcohol. I agree that it seems to be jealousy/revenge.

I said "a lot" of homicides are not gang related - not most. Generally about half of all homicides each year are gang related with general "altercations" being the next leading cause.

The best statistical survey of homicides in Chicago (PDF) is from 2005 and shows general trends since the early 90's. On pg. 32 it lists the top causes for 2005 as being:

Gangs: 31.4%
Altercations: 14.3%
Robbery: 8.9%
Domestic: 8.2%
Gang/Narcotic: 6.8%

I'm just trying to point out that some people blame all homicides on gangs and thieves when on average 1/3 to 1/2 of homicides committed are unrelated to either. Fighting gangs should certainly be a main focus in preventing crime, but there is other work that needs to be done in addition to that (i.e. taking restraining orders seriously, breaking up altercations before they escalate, etc.).

I would agree that area is not that bad, a little bleak and abandoned in spots, but not that bad. I walked past that intersection on my way to work everyday for 8 years and went past it late at night many times going to bars and never felt unsafe. Damen and Division st. in the early 90's could be pretty hairy, but this area has always been just kind of empty (although that has been changing in the last 5 years).

[lincolnparker]

Thats the whole idea of scattering public housing projects around the city, old town, Lakeview, LP, etc. Intentions were good and the policy's based upon a number of studies by the Urban Institute on the "ripple effects of public housing", i.e., if you put underpriviledged population together with the priviledged ones they will become better citizens.

Thoeries do not always prove themselves in implementation. Look at what Baltimore has done. They finally torn down all the public housing in east baltimore and are having Johns Hopkins develop the land.

Policies makers need to come up with better policies that speak to the needs of its citizens

[APPLEI]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

And the infamous Hotel Chateau. I think that causes more problems than the high-rise Gill Park Cooperative you speak of, but I wouldn't mind seeing both disappear.

It's totally plausible that I would be at that intersection at 11:40 p.m. some time... I hate these shootings that are close to home.

a friend of says he thinks he saw two men smoking crack in front of Hotel Chateau not to mention he had 2 panhandlers around Grace & Broadway begging him for money.

[GreatLakesDrifter]

Originally Posted by lincolnparker

Thats the whole idea of scattering public housing projects around the city, old town, Lakeview, LP, etc. Intentions were good and the policy's based upon a number of studies by the Urban Institute on the "ripple effects of public housing", i.e., if you put underpriviledged population together with the priviledged ones they will become better citizens.

Thoeries do not always prove themselves in implementation. Look at what Baltimore has done. They finally torn down all the public housing in east baltimore and are having Johns Hopkins develop the land.

Policies makers need to come up with better policies that speak to the needs of its citizens

I still think scattering public housing is a good plan, because what can policy makers come up with besides the old way of pushing the poor off to ghettos (whether they be in the city or in the suburbs)?

[Lookout Kid]

There are no scattered site housing projects near the shooting on Grace. There's just a high-rise limited-equity low-income cooperative (the Gill Park Cooperative) and an old flophouse hotel (the Hotel Chateau). The Gill Park co-op residents own the place, but cannot sell at market rate if they want to move. It's supposed to "preserve affordable housing", but it's really just a bad financial decision for the people involved. And of course, there are tax credits.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

There are no scattered site housing projects near the shooting on Grace. There's just a high-rise limited-equity low-income cooperative (the Gill Park Cooperative) and an old flophouse hotel (the Hotel Chateau). The Gill Park co-op residents own the place, but cannot sell at market rate if they want to move. It's supposed to "preserve affordable housing", but it's really just a bad financial decision for the people involved. And of course, there are tax credits.

The Gill Park Co-Op is a former scattered site Section 8 CHA building. Most of the people that "own it" were the residents of the building when it was a CHA building. The CHA,Social Security,Welfare,etc are still paying the bills for the people there. They may call it an Apple, but it really is an Orange that was always was an Orange even though you are now told it is an Apple.

[David Hammond]

Originally Posted by lincolnparker

Thats the whole idea of scattering public housing projects around the city, old town, Lakeview, LP, etc. Intentions were good and the policy's based upon a number of studies by the Urban Institute on the "ripple effects of public housing", i.e., if you put underpriviledged population together with the priviledged ones they will become better citizens.

Thoeries do not always prove themselves in implementation. Look at what Baltimore has done. They finally torn down all the public housing in east baltimore and are having Johns Hopkins develop the land.

Policies makers need to come up with better policies that speak to the needs of its citizens

I agree totally. A problem is, that that the people who make "policy" don't live on the front lines. Look at Clinton, he was the "first black president", yet he only produced one offspring, and he lives in Chappaqua, NY where none of what he championed exists. Bush/McCain are no better, look at who they married and where THIER kids were sent to school. Cheers and out.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

The Gill Park Co-Op is a former scattered site Section 8 CHA building. Most of the people that "own it" were the residents of the building when it was a CHA building. The CHA,Social Security,Welfare,etc are still paying the bills for the people there. They may call it an Apple, but it really is an Orange that was always was an Orange even though you are now told it is an Apple.

Close, but not quite. It was owned by HUD, not the CHA. It started out as a HUD-owned rental property, then became a HUD-ownend 100% Section 8 rental property (i.e. the entire building was dedicated to Section 8 tenants). Then HUD "sold" the building to its tenants to form the Gill Park Cooperative.

I put the word "sold" in quotation marks because the only real ownership rights granted to the "owners" is the ability to stay there as long as they want without a landlord getting in the way. However, they will never see much appreciation in their investment because equity is limited based on some affordability formula. The reason all of these HUD-owned high-rises are going/have gone co-op is twofold:

1. HUD washes its hands of some problem properties

2. The affordable housing doesn't disappear because of a landlord selling or converting the building.

Uptown is full of these darn co-ops, mostly in high-rise buildings, but they never seem to have the same pride in ownership one would associate with a condo building. You see, when you can't get any money back from improving your unit or building, what's the point? Why improve your kitchen or lobby if you will never get a return onn your investment? So the properties basically operate like rental buidlings, and become run-down over time. They do seem to generate less crime than rental housing, however, because most residents do have jobs. I think the Hotel Chateau is a bigger problem in the immediate area of this shooting.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Close, but not quite. It was owned by HUD, not the CHA. It started out as a HUD-owned rental property, then became a HUD-ownend 100% Section 8 rental property...

Well I did know about the HUD history. I did not really say that the CHA owned the building at one time. I just said it was filled with CHA Section 8 voucher holders hence the term "CHA building."

I did not want to go into a long description and detailed description of the buildings history.
But you did and that is fine with me. It is good to get the info out to the community around that building

I do not have the energy to type too much tonight.