why does the suburbia have a bad rep? (Chicago, Wilmette: real estate, home)

[sgresident]

I don't think the suburbs have a bad rep. It is all in your point of view. those you truly are city people, feel really great about living in the city; those of us who wouldn't live in the city for anything, love our suburbs. the joys of america, choosing your surroundings!

[Lookout Kid]

The Suburbs are getting a bad rep from city planners, architects, writers, and artists. Books like Suburban Nation and The Geography of Nowhere are scathing criticisms of modern suburban development. Movies like American Beauty and Juno attempt to expose certain cultural deficiencies in the burbs.

Bourgeoise culture has always been a magnet for attack by intellectuals and artists, but the mega-middle class in America has breeded a special kind of contempt--and it's mostly from within. I'd say the criticism is loudest from people who were raised in suburbia, while the urban working, lower and underclasses still strive to raise themselves up to the suburban ideal (just look at where most immigrants move from the city as soon as they get some financial success in the U.S.). I guess it makes sense that the people who have achieved the "American Dream" are the quickest ones to point out its shortcomings. And also, it's easy to take for granted if you have never had to struggle.

But many criticisms of modern suburbia are indeed valid. I don't want to get into it here, for it would take an essay. But people like James Howard Kunstler will be plenty happy to do it with more wit and vitriol than I ever could (see video link below):


YouTube - James Howard Kunstler: The tragedy of suburbia

[lincolnparker]

it seems your point of view is based upon certain cultural as well as socioeconomic elements. However, I do not see how your claim that "while the urban working, lower and underclasses still strive to raise themselves up to the suburban ideal " can hold up. Just look at Lincoln park, gold coast and streeterville, which are solid city neighborhoods and I have not seen many urban poor live in half millor dollar condos.

Given the rising of gas prices and changes in other economic conditions, I can see a rise in urbanization, where suburbans are moving back into the city, not only because of cultural reasons, but more importantly financial concerns.

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

The Suburbs are getting a bad rep from city planners, architects, writers, and artists. Books like Suburban Nation and The Geography of Nowhere are scathing criticisms of modern suburban development. Movies like American Beauty and Juno attempt to expose certain cultural deficiencies in the burbs.

Bourgeoise culture has always been a magnet for attack by intellectuals and artists, but the mega-middle class in America has breeded a special kind of contempt--and it's mostly from within. I'd say the criticism is loudest from people who were raised in suburbia, while the urban working, lower and underclasses still strive to raise themselves up to the suburban ideal (just look at where most immigrants move from the city as soon as they get some financial success in the U.S.). I guess it makes sense that the people who have achieved the "American Dream" are the quickest ones to point out its shortcomings. And also, it's easy to take for granted if you have never had to struggle.

But many criticisms of modern suburbia are indeed valid. I don't want to get into it here, for it would take an essay. But people like James Howard Kunstler will be plenty happy to do it with more wit and vitriol than I ever could (see video link below):


YouTube - James Howard Kunstler: The tragedy of suburbia

[Lookout Kid]

Lincoln Parker, I'm refering to the fact that most immigrants bolt for the suburbs as soon as they have the economic means to do so. Gentrification of city neighborhoods is largely due to people moving into the city from the suburbs or surrounding states. So the parents may fight their way out of the city to the suburbs when they are economically well off, but their kids will go back to live in the city after they go to college.

Personally, I'd like to see the city do more to attract and retain middle-class families. The biggest thing would be improving the schools, but they should also focus on promoting family housing in the city. Developers have locked in to their "young childless people and empty nesters" demographic.

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

But people like James Howard Kunstler will be plenty happy to do it with more wit and vitriol than I ever could (see video link below):


YouTube - James Howard Kunstler: The tragedy of suburbia

Haha, wow thats harsh. But cant really argue with any of his points. The degradation of the public realm is truly disheartening.

(BTW, Ted.com is probably my all time favorite website)

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by via chicago

Haha, wow thats harsh. But cant really argue with any of his points. The degradation of the public realm is truly disheartening.

(BTW, Ted.com is probably my all time favorite website)

Harsh, but funny! I used to really love this guy when I was an overly idealistic student, but have since decided he may be a few notches over the top.

[David Hammond]

In Detroit, suburbia doesn't have a bad name, now does it.

It has nothing to do with density, architecture, or any of that crap. Just a few blocks from Cabrini-Green live people in the "same architecture, same neighborhood, and same density" yet they are worlds apart.

What matters is demographics, despite what PC liberals, who live in self-segregagted areas themselves, say.

Some "suburbs" are places now, like all of Los Angeles, that nobody would live in despite the conventional reasons ("american dream", less density, backyard) that would dictate otherwise.

People self-segregate based on race, it is hands down the most salient factor when considering housing, far more than is "density, architecture, urban vs. suburban vs. exurban, etc." and all the rest of the nonsense some poli sci types talk about.

If there were any factors other than race that matter, again: urban, suburban, architecture, location, commute, "coolness", then can anyone explain the utter failure of Detroit (city)?

Let's hear it. Bring on the race deniers!

[neonwattagelimit]

Originally Posted by David Hammond

If there were any factors other than race that matter, again: urban, suburban, architecture, location, commute, "coolness", then can anyone explain the utter failure of Detroit (city)?

Your post did raise a salient point in that race is a factor and people of all stripes have a natural tendency to self-segregate. I do tend to believe that other factors are at play, as well - the most important, more important than race (though it often winds up looking like racial segregation), is income.

But I mostly want to answer that one question. There is a single, and rather simple, explanation for the utter failure of Detroit that has nothing to do with race (I'm not saying that race didn't play a role): the decline and fall of the American auto industry. Detroit hitched its wagon to one giant industry, and when that industry began to fall, it took the city down along with it. Such is why economic diversification is important, but that's another matter entirely.

Now, if the American auto industry were still thriving, I'd have to say that Detroit (the city itself, anyway) would still be worse off than it was 50 years ago and, yes, race is a part of that. No question there. But while race is important, it's the almighty dollar that rules the roost.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by neonwattagelimit

Detroit hitched its wagon to one giant industry, and when that industry began to fall, it took the city down along with it.

Kind of like a knight falling on his own sword, no?

It's hard to imagine any major city that is 90% African-American (like Detroit) bouncing back. Why? Because a city that white people avoid with such gusto must have some issues that go beyond race. I consider the demograpics of Detroit or Gary more like an "indicator" of a problem.

The thread was asking "Why does suburbia have a bad rep?", not "Why does the inner city have a bad rep?". I know there are some people that complain that there are too many white people in the suburbs, but that's not the "bad rep" that I think the OP was talking about.

[scarletneon]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Kind of like a knight falling on his own sword, no?

It's hard to imagine any major city that is 90% African-American (like Detroit) bouncing back. Why? Because a city that white people avoid with such gusto must have some issues.

The thread was asking "Why does suburbia have a bad rap?", not "Why does the inner city have a bad rap?". I know there are some people that complain that there are too many white people in the suburbs, but that's not the "bad rap" that I think the OP was talking about.

oh, I think ol' Davey boy has to turn every reply into a race issue.
Nice.