Segregation in Chicago (Kankakee, Columbia, Havana: transplants, rental, home)

[edsg25]

racially I consider Chicago far more integrated than it ever was and I think for many Chicagoans (city and suburbs) race is not an issue. This is not a very, very blue city for nothing and IMHO, Chicago is more "coastal like" than any interior city in the nation. We fit comfortably with places like New York and San Francisco.

I do, however, feel we suffer from more and more economic segregation. And I do believe that with the cost of energy and commute and housing decisions more and more based on centrality and public transportation, the most segregated areas of the city (on the South and West Sides) will receive enormous real estate pressures for redevelopment as part of the new economy where less is more and money needs to be used very wisely as the age of bubbles comes to an end.

I have absolutely no doubt this will happen. Gentrification has already worked its way south to Chinatown and Bridgeport and the south lakefront....with or without the Olympics....is destined for total redevelopment from McCPl to Hyde Pk. West from the Loop to the UC is already high end property with UIC and the Medical Center being attractive residential areas. University Village is the sign of things to come and other megaprojects are planned further west.

The bugalow belt on the s.w. side is prime for growth in real estate that is a relative bargain in Chicago and the Orange Line a godsend.

My biggest concern on this growth will not be racial integregation (I think it will be there), but economic...and what happens to people who are uprooted.

We have lived a recent era where the racial divide has been less, but our desire for money and prestige often has made the economic divide sadly wider. Chicago and nationwide.

[linicx]

The list is NOT accurrate. List writers do not live in the areas they pertend to know.

The reason cities are segregated has more to do with banks than people. Banks quietly redline older areas of town and do not loan in these areas. Realtors do not sell in those areas to folks with good credit and cash in hand. The folks who buy there are generally poor and can buy on contract. This is the only reason any town in the north is segratated today. There are some towns in the south that still cling to Civil War ideas. Shame on them.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by linicx

The list is NOT accurrate. List writers do not live in the areas they pertend to know.

The reason cities are segregated has more to do with banks than people. Banks quietly redline older areas of town and do not loan in these areas. Realtors do not sell in those areas to folks with good credit and cash in hand. The folks who buy there are generally poor and can buy on contract. This is the only reason any town in the north is segratated today. There are some towns in the south that still cling to Civil War ideas. Shame on them.

linicx, we are flawed. as a city. and as a nation. just like every group of people on this planet.

segregation and the treatment of our African American citizens is a national shame from the first slaves at Jamestown to the disturbing questions of the Obama candidacy.

But guess what?

Obama won. And, man, did that feel good as an American. Think about it: no major predominantly white nation on the face of the earth every elected someone of African ancestry its president. I don't care if you are a Democrat or a Republican, you have to feel damn good....and proud...about that.

America faces shame for our current era, IMHO. We have yet to come to terms with what we did to the people of Iraq and other ways that we have harmed the international community and our own citizens.

But that doesn't take away from what is good about us and Obama's election highlighted just that. For all the insanity of race, America shows it is desperately trying to put that issue behind us. And in Chicago, where people named Michael, Oprah and Barrack are among our most popular, that old black/white divide (now delightfully mixed with Hispanic and Asian) is becoming a part of our past. Hopefully it will join Al Capone thoroughly in the total past in the not too distant future. I, for one, won't bet against that.

[chicagocubs]

Originally Posted by linicx

The list is NOT accurrate. List writers do not live in the areas they pertend to know.

The reason cities are segregated has more to do with banks than people. Banks quietly redline older areas of town and do not loan in these areas. Realtors do not sell in those areas to folks with good credit and cash in hand. The folks who buy there are generally poor and can buy on contract. This is the only reason any town in the north is segratated today. There are some towns in the south that still cling to Civil War ideas. Shame on them.

OK, as a banker, I have no idea where you get the idea that banks redline. That is a notion that has gone away with manual underwriting. First of all, most mortgage underwriters are centralized in an area outside of where the properties are, and, unless you happen to be from an area, you have no idea of the composition of the neighbourhood. For example, as a mortgage underwriter living in Charlotte, NC and underwriting there, I have underwritten loans in Florida, Washington state, Oregon, Arizona, Maryland, Pennsylvania, western NC and now, eastern NC. Plus a smattering from almost every other state in the union. I have no idea where these properties are, neighbourhood-wise. From my appraisal & credit reports, I have no idea if the client is black, white, or other. It is illegal to have any form of picture identification in the file (to avoid that very issue). My decisions are based purely on your proven ability to pay your bills, your current economic situation and your history of wages plus the type of collateral it is and if there is sufficient value to support the loan. Obviously, it is a bit more complicated than that, but, that is the jist of it. Additionally, most of the basic underwriting is done automatically by the computer, which cannot determine the race of the client. Very few, if any banks do their mortgage underwriting inhouse, meaning that it is never done in the same location that the loan is presented. Mortgage brokers only ship the loans out to banks, so, they don't underwrite them either. Real Estate brokers/salespeople could easily loose their license if they redline, so, that is not likely either.

You are correct only that the south still clings to the Civil War, but, that has less to do with real estate and more to do with attitudes against northerners. I know this! I am a midwesterner living in the south.

Seriously, you need to get your thought process out of the 1960's. That kind of practice is not only illegal and immoral but just impossible to accomplish in this day & time.

[oldhousegirl]

Interesting thread. I think with more overall mobility throughout America, that Chicago's neighborhood patterns will shift. Heck, they are already shifting. Newcomers don't have knowledge for the most part of the "type" of neighborhood. They are only looking for a great place to live. I have lived northside, southside, and suburbs. When I left the southside, a primarily black neighborhood, middle class working and professional, I was very surprised when a former neighbor told me that a youngish, single Asian woman had moved onto the block, (sfh's). Great, it's about time for diversity everywhere.

Also, Chicago has a thing which I have never seen anywhere else that I've lived and that is identification based on high school attended. You can be obviously way older than a recent H.S. grad, and without fail, when meeting someone new from Chicago they always ask, "What H.S. did you go to?" It's a quick and easy way to "place" someone.

Chicago has strong neighborhood affiliations, which makes it such a unique place to live. That can be positive or negative depending on what neighborhood you're from.

[hhe1982]

I am foreigner, I used to live in a small town in Pennsylvania, sometimes people made me uncomfortable there, I didn't relate it to racism issue, thought it is just different culture thing. After I moved to chicago, I found people are more friendly here. and at the same time, sadly found white and black are apparently live in different area.

[xavier xerxes]

Originally Posted by edsg25

racially I consider Chicago far more integrated than it ever was and I think for many Chicagoans (city and suburbs) race is not an issue. This is not a very, very blue city for nothing and IMHO, Chicago is more "coastal like" than any interior city in the nation. We fit comfortably with places like New York and San Francisco.

I do, however, feel we suffer from more and more economic segregation. And I do believe that with the cost of energy and commute and housing decisions more and more based on centrality and public transportation, the most segregated areas of the city (on the South and West Sides) will receive enormous real estate pressures for redevelopment as part of the new economy where less is more and money needs to be used very wisely as the age of bubbles comes to an end.

I have absolutely no doubt this will happen. Gentrification has already worked its way south to Chinatown and Bridgeport and the south lakefront....with or without the Olympics....is destined for total redevelopment from McCPl to Hyde Pk. West from the Loop to the UC is already high end property with UIC and the Medical Center being attractive residential areas. University Village is the sign of things to come and other megaprojects are planned further west.

The bugalow belt on the s.w. side is prime for growth in real estate that is a relative bargain in Chicago and the Orange Line a godsend.

My biggest concern on this growth will not be racial integregation (I think it will be there), but economic...and what happens to people who are uprooted.

We have lived a recent era where the racial divide has been less, but our desire for money and prestige often has made the economic divide sadly wider. Chicago and nationwide.

Couldnt have said it better,
edsg so this is where you are hiding out
SSCF is pretty dead right now with the economy and realstate being in a real slump, but it will rebound, I hope you return some day, I miss your discussion starting questions, its a lull but yes the south side is going to boom more and fill in between hydepark and all other points north south and west.
Lulls are good, we dont want too much development in the same style anyways.

Economic segregation, yep, there are exception like pockets of uptown where the uptown yard looks to be alot of low income/senior housing,
I just hope we can find a balance where the decent people of all levels can live together. But likely it will continue to be only some opportunities of scatter site housing for low income, as America is more capitalistic and frowns in general on socialized housing, which in someways is bad in that public housing usually isnt so great as in Europe. I just hope that there is more opportunities and jobs to promote home/condo ownership and atleast a living wage for renters, it should be a choice between the two. America is probably the most extreme place in that money is king.

Segregation is less than it has been in the past but middle and higher income african americans tend to stay in their usual pockets on the south side, their is Black gentrification, and there are more Blacks on the northside than i remember as a kid. In general the northside is more ethnically diverse than it ever has been except in lincoln park, lincoln square....

Rogers Park is becoming gentrified for sure, with certain holdouts like North of Howard and certain buildings, but it like the rest of the neigborhoods by the lake will become ritzier and ritzier.

my screen name on SSCF is mohammed wong, and we miss you edsg
but glad to see you are still with us... HA. sounds overly dramatic

[Snowden Is Cold]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Here are the top 25 most segregated cities over 100,000 people, according to the U.S. Census.

16.Kankakee, IL 15,94280,829103,83377.3

Since when does Kankakee have over 100,000 people?

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Snowden Is Cold

Since when does Kankakee have over 100,000 people?

Hmmmm... Yeah, not even close. If I remembered where I got those stats last year I could look them up and clarify, but I don't want to hunt around for them again. I should have posted a link.

[Snowden Is Cold]

Yeah, don't bother. I just thought it was kinda funny.