Segregation in Chicago (Barrington, Atlanta, Detroit: safe area, college, casinos)

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Hmmmm... Yeah, not even close. If I remembered where I got those stats last year I could look them up and clarify, but I don't want to hunt around for them again. I should have posted a link.

Well the County of Kankakee has well over 100,000 people. The town itself probably has 30-40 thousand.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by edsg25

racially I consider Chicago far more integrated than it ever was and I think for many Chicagoans (city and suburbs) race is not an issue. This is not a very, very blue city for nothing and IMHO, Chicago is more "coastal like" than any interior city in the nation. We fit comfortably with places like New York and San Francisco.

I do, however, feel we suffer from more and more economic segregation. And I do believe that with the cost of energy and commute and housing decisions more and more based on centrality and public transportation, the most segregated areas of the city (on the South and West Sides) will receive enormous real estate pressures for redevelopment as part of the new economy where less is more and money needs to be used very wisely as the age of bubbles comes to an end.

I have absolutely no doubt this will happen. Gentrification has already worked its way south to Chinatown and Bridgeport and the south lakefront....with or without the Olympics....is destined for total redevelopment from McCPl to Hyde Pk. West from the Loop to the UC is already high end property with UIC and the Medical Center being attractive residential areas. University Village is the sign of things to come and other megaprojects are planned further west.

The bugalow belt on the s.w. side is prime for growth in real estate that is a relative bargain in Chicago and the Orange Line a godsend.

My biggest concern on this growth will not be racial integregation (I think it will be there), but economic...and what happens to people who are uprooted.

We have lived a recent era where the racial divide has been less, but our desire for money and prestige often has made the economic divide sadly wider. Chicago and nationwide.

I wonder what effect the recession will have on economic segregation and racial segregation.

With the drop in housing, people no longer have to be necessarily rich to live in some areas, where previously you had to be.

On the flipside, I think racial tensions can come to light when jobs are more scarce. People can bring up issues related to affirmative action.

We'll see. I think in many ways a recession can reverse certain trends both good and bad.

[jcoffy]

I think segregation may be race, natural, class,education,etc, and you find this kind of prejudice in any society. In that post, I believe it is more natural than any qualificative or attribute. There is nothing racist in that segmentation if people want to live with people they think are similar to them. this is good to feel comfortable in life at the same way there are who feel more comfortable in a diversity environment as I. Just to tell; I'm Blk but I do not see myself in the environment of 50% blacks because i'm a mosaic person. Homogeneity is neglect for me. we are a human being we need a new source of inspiration to survive, new energy, air. This kind of stuff the only way you can get them is by affinity with someone different than you. I hope you understand what I mean. I do not want to go far away the last time I posted something (Cleveland, OH) someone was misleaded me for my punctuation, etc

[goldenmousebrownexpress]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking for a couple of weeks or so and well, I am living in Chicago going on 9months. Personally, my opinion is that the segregation is more culturally-based (although there are always exceptions) and I don't think the situation is any different from most other world cities.

I think it's part of the charm of a city to have different neighborhoods of different ethnicities. Personally, while I am happy with diversity, I and I'm sure others feel most at home with people like them. : )

[emathias]

"Diversity" comes at different levels.

If one block is 100% Asian, it's not a diverse block, but if you have 16 square miles in Chicago and each square mile is close to 100% of one of 16 different groups, then as a whole that is very diverse. In some ways, it's more diverse, especially if a few of those blocks are mixed, since in a 100% mixed environment, there are elements of "ethnic enclaves" that won't develop. There would be Chinese restaurants without Chinatown, but would as many be able to remain as authentic as most can in a real Chinatown? There used to be notable, influential Swedish and German social organizations, the marks of which are scattered around downtown Chicago, but since those groups have homogenized into the general society, they no longer exist - at least not with any real influence. While there's a lot to be said for society accepting a group so well that it essentially disappears, it does reduce the diversity in an area. Diversity isn't everything, but it is part of what makes a city interesting, and sometimes self-selection neighborhood segregation is actually a positive thing. When it's forced by law or violence or discrimination, it's A Bad Thing, but when it exists due to rational, free-will choices by thousands of people who hold no malice in their hearts thenI would argue it's not just a neutral variation in how people live, but can often even be a good thing for a city.

[lastonestanding]

From Wikipedia:

"Racial segregation is the separation of different racial groups in daily life, such as eating in a restaurant, drinking from a water fountain, using a rest room, attending school, going to the movies, or in the rental or purchase of a home."

If anyone knows about Chicago then they know this is what Chicago has been like for years. Some of yall transplants really don't understand that about Chicago. Gentrification is segregation. Its segregation with a title. In the 60s and 70s when caucasians left parts of the city it was known as white flight and now that areas such as bronzeville are seeing more development and an increase in diversity its now called gentrification. Bronzeville is a huge example of Chicago's segregation. For years that part of town had a huge number of African Americans and now that is beginning to decrease. Another example would be Humboldt Park with the hispanic population. Don't believe me? Check out this book called Kings, which is the true story of Bronzeville's Policy Kings. Someone else wrote another book dealing with this same situation. I forgot the name of the book, but it was on C-SPAN not too long ago. The author (a caucasian professor at UofC) wrote about their experience living on the Westside and how after they left the neighborhood went down and landlords literally neglected their properties and that part of town became a haven for drugs and prostitution. Today that area is seeing more development because of guess what Gentrification. You can go to any part of town with a large population of different ethnicities and see people of the same race eating, drinking, and going about daily life together. I know this can be seen anywhere, but if you check your history of Chicago you'll know the reason why it is what it is.

[cxdurden]

Segregation is a misnomer. While there might be some historical economic inequalities that maliciously affect minority communities - most Chicago neighborhoods are just massive ethnic enclaves that provide cultural and social atmospheres for various nationalities. Its no different than Little Havana, or Little Haiti in Miami, etc. Chicago just has more of an abundance of very diverse ethnic and racial communities in which individuals of respective cultures will gravitate towards one another to congregate in familiar cultural spaces, i.e. churches, mosques, temples, restaurants, schools, and other institutions.

In my humble opinion, having lived in North Florida (Gainesville), Atlanta and constantly visiting various parts of the deep South - you will most likely experience more solid segregation living in those cities or parts of the US versus places like Chicago, New York, Miami, etc. What is strange about places like Atlanta, Columbia, Gainesville, Birmingham is that even middle and upper-middle class African American families will live among lower middle class and working class African American communities, i.e. Stone Mountain, Lithonia, East Gainesville, etc.

When I lived in Atlanta in 2007, its so obviously that the city is heavily divided along racial lines. Majority of African American neighborhoods are on the East and South sections of the City/Suburbs and the majority of White Neighborhoods are in the West and North (Alpharetta, Duluth, Norcross, etc). When I first went to Beverly this past July, I've never seen a neighborhood in which both middle class African Americans and White Americans live together. That was truly a weird sight to see.

As a Black American, I am tired however of debates like this because I can honestly say that in major cities that are extremely diverse - class and wealth begins to trump over race. Upper middle class African Americans, aka infamous "Bourgeois Negroes" are just as racist and discriminatory against lower class African Americans as White Americans. However, the disgust and angst on my part is that ironically activists like Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson whom share the economic benefits of living in the upper-middle class often deflect blame on economic disparities on white America. The Black Bourgeoisie whom often flee Black neighborhoods is the root problem of why there is widespread joblessness, homelessness, poverty, etc in many Black neighborhoods for their lack of wanting to invest in developing black businesses that will provide jobs for many black enclaves like the Southside, etc.

[lastonestanding]

Originally Posted by cxdurden

Segregation is a misnomer. While there might be some historical economic inequalities that maliciously affect minority communities - most Chicago neighborhoods are just massive ethnic enclaves that provide cultural and social atmospheres for various nationalities. Its no different than Little Havana, or Little Haiti in Miami, etc. Chicago just has more of an abundance of very diverse ethnic and racial communities in which individuals of respective cultures will gravitate towards one another to congregate in familiar cultural spaces, i.e. churches, mosques, temples, restaurants, schools, and other institutions.

In my humble opinion, having lived in North Florida (Gainesville), Atlanta and constantly visiting various parts of the deep South - you will most likely experience more solid segregation living in those cities or parts of the US versus places like Chicago, New York, Miami, etc. What is strange about places like Atlanta, Columbia, Gainesville, Birmingham is that even middle and upper-middle class African American families will live among lower middle class and working class African American communities, i.e. Stone Mountain, Lithonia, East Gainesville, etc.

When I lived in Atlanta in 2007, its so obviously that the city is heavily divided along racial lines. Majority of African American neighborhoods are on the East and South sections of the City/Suburbs and the majority of White Neighborhoods are in the West and North (Alpharetta, Duluth, Norcross, etc). When I first went to Beverly this past July, I've never seen a neighborhood in which both middle class African Americans and White Americans live together. That was truly a weird sight to see.

As a Black American, I am tired however of debates like this because I can honestly say that in major cities that are extremely diverse - class and wealth begins to trump over race. Upper middle class African Americans, aka infamous "Bourgeois Negroes" are just as racist and discriminatory against lower class African Americans as White Americans. However, the disgust and angst on my part is that ironically activists like Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson whom share the economic benefits of living in the upper-middle class often deflect blame on economic disparities on white America. The Black Bourgeoisie whom often flee Black neighborhoods is the root problem of why there is widespread joblessness, homelessness, poverty, etc in many Black neighborhoods for their lack of wanting to invest in developing black businesses that will provide jobs for many black enclaves like the Southside, etc.

I agree with you on that 100%. I have numerous relatives living in all parts of Atlanta and I noticed that myself. When I first saw the large number of upper black middle class living in mansions and gated-communities out Cascade or on Snapfinger I was completely amazed by the number of wealthy African Americans living in Atlanta. But later driving down Bankhead Hwy or Memorial Drive I noticed the dividing line. I also noticed their attitudes towards individuals living in those parts of town. It was as if they didnt care and they actually complained about their lifestyle and didnt seem to want to help the youth living in those parts of town although they lived right down the street or on the other side of 285. Now that you've mentioned it, I really dont see too much of that in Chicago as I did in Atlanta. I still think Chicago has an issue with segregation, but I think more people are addressing that issue here than in places like Atlanta.

[cxdurden]

Originally Posted by lastonestanding

I agree with you on that 100%. I have numerous relatives living in all parts of Atlanta and I noticed that myself. When I first saw the large number of upper black middle class living in mansions and gated-communities out Cascade or on Snapfinger I was completely amazed by the number of wealthy African Americans living in Atlanta. But later driving down Bankhead Hwy or Memorial Drive I noticed the dividing line. I also noticed their attitudes towards individuals living in those parts of town. It was as if they didnt care and they actually complained about their lifestyle and didnt seem to want to help the youth living in those parts of town although they lived right down the street or on the other side of 285. Now that you've mentioned it, I really dont see too much of that in Chicago as I did in Atlanta. I still think Chicago has an issue with segregation, but I think more people are addressing that issue here than in places like Atlanta.

Chicago's Black Middle Class is seriously trying to make strides in order to correct institutional disparities that exists between varying classes of Blacks versus what you would see in other cities like Los Angeles, DC, New York, Philly, etc. But then again, it could also be that there is a higher concentration of Black entrepreneurs and small business owners in Chicagoland than any other city. In places like DC, most upper middle class African Americans are just over-paid government bureacrats that are sitting back waiting for a pension and social security check. It could explain why there is more of a push for organizations like the Chicago Urban League, NAACP, etc to be more proactive abou securing resources to build black business and enterprises versus what you typically would see in other cities.

Chicago's Urban League is the only branch I know to this date that actually is designed as a business incubator program in conjunction with Northwestern's School of Business. The person behind that idea is the current chairman of the Chicago Urban League, is Jim Reynolds whom is also the owner and chairman of Loop Capital Markets.

[Avengerfire]

Is this not like 1 out of 20 threads made on this topic? I wish people would just let it be already. This topic has been flogged like a mutinous sailor.