11-17-2008, 07:27 PM
445 posts, read
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Reputation: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supernerdgirl
god forbid some of us don't want to fly or drive everywhere.
Yeah, because that's what I was saying...
To suggest that one should be able to board a train in any given US city and from there, take a non-stop train to any other US city is what's totally delusional. The infrastructural requirements for something like that would be 100% unmanageable, not to mention impossibly expensive.... And just to preemptivley cut off what's a certainty to come (because it's impossible to examine the cost of left-leaning fantasy projects where they won't rationalize the associated outlay as a matter relative to Iraq war expenditure); yes, yes, I know how much the war in Iraq costs, but we aren't talking about the costs associated with the War in Iraq. A project like Cooly is suggesting would cost drastically more than that, not to mention the cost-to-benefit ratio would be almost entirely slanted towards cost...
Thus, the "childishly unrealistic" remark. Much like how children might suggest that we invent flying cars that run on sunbeams and saltwater, what he/she suggested is entirely in the realm of fantasy, yet people actually believe that we should waste our time 'looking into' such fluff.
I'm a huge public transit proponent and utilize it extensively myself, but 'playing pretend' is counterproductive and a retrograding force that detracts away from the legitimacy of projects that are realistic and do'able.
11-17-2008, 07:31 PM
3,631 posts, read
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Reputation: 2039
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PokerPlayer1
Yeah, because that's what I was saying...
To suggest that one should be able to board a train in any given US city and from there, take a non-stop train to any other US city is what's totally delusional. The infrastructural requirements for something like that would be 100% unmanageable, not to mention impossibly expensive.... And just to preemptivley cut off what's a certainty to come; yes, yes, I know how much the war in Iraq costs, but we aren't talking about the costs associated with the War in Iraq. A project like Cooly is suggesting would cost drastically more than that, not to mention the cost-to-benefit ratio would be almost entirely slanted towards cost...
Thus, the "childishly unrealistic" remark. Much like how children might suggest that we invent flying cars that run on sunbeams and saltwater, what he/she suggested is entirely in the realm of fantasy, yet people actually believe that we should waste our time 'looking into' such fluff.
ok i guess i didn't read the whole thing, but to tell the truth i am really unhappy that i have to rent a car to drive down south for Christmas because i refuse to fly anymore. it would be wonderful to take a train to Nashville...
11-17-2008, 07:37 PM
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
3,396 posts, read
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Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by
coolyfett
One of the most important agendas in my book, people should be able to get around without using a car all the time. I should be able to walk to my local train station, connect to the train station that connects to Amtrak and go to any major city in the US I want. If I want to go from Chi to Sea...it should be strait shots. I shouldn't have to go to New Orleans to go to Seattle, know what I mean. Makes traveling a hassle unless you use planes.
Yeah - I have to agree that trains are more of a regional transportation solution and not a cross country solution. High speed rail From Chicago to Indy, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Detroit, etc. makes sense. Transferring at somewhere like Pittsburgh to get to NYC via rail makes sense - but even at the short distance to NYC flying makes a lot more sense than even high speed rail.
BTW - The
Empire Builder goes straight through from Chicago to Seattle (or Portland with one transfer at Spokane). I'm not sure why you would go through New Orleans.
11-17-2008, 10:13 PM
Location: Chicago
15,586 posts, read
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Reputation: 1761
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supernerdgirl
...to tell the truth i am really unhappy that i have to rent a car to drive down south for Christmas because i refuse to fly anymore. it would be wonderful to take a train to Nashville...
Well you could take a bus.
I thought you hate Tennessee? Make whomever you are going to visit come here.
I am just playing around. Do not take it personal.
11-17-2008, 10:49 PM
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read
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Reputation: 29983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supernerdgirl
ok i guess i didn't read the whole thing, but to tell the truth i am really unhappy that i have to rent a car to drive down south for Christmas because i refuse to fly anymore. it would be wonderful to take a train to Nashville...
So basically.... you're unhappy on account of your own refusal. I'm not sure creating a redundant transportation infrastructure to accommodate your unhappiness and refusal is a wise use of resources. As big as our country is and as spread out as our metropolitan centers -- particularly west of the Mississippi -- air travel will be far, far more cost-effective way to connect distant cities and regions for the foreseeable future. Trains make sense in dense corridors like Boston-NYC-Philly-Baltimore-Washington, or maybe SD-LA-SF... but crisscrossing the entire continent with rail lines isn't practical. So unfortunately you'll either need to get with the program or drive a car.
11-17-2008, 11:01 PM
11,975 posts, read
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Reputation: 4644
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PokerPlayer1
To suggest that one should be able to board a train in any given US city and from there, take a non-stop train to any other US city is what's totally delusional.
Sure. But with stops only in major cities along the way it should be possible. Europe has it's inter-city express trains that are pretty efficient.
The way I see passenger rail transportation evolving in the post-automobile world is that regional systems will be developed independently, and then connected to each other. The Northeast corridor is already pretty well-served. High-speed rail in the Midwest could connect our major cities. The Southeast and West Coast would develop independently, and then the resulting networks would be connected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PokerPlayer1
A project like Cooly is suggesting would cost drastically more than that, not to mention the cost-to-benefit ratio would be almost entirely slanted towards cost...
Umm, like the Federal highway system? It's actually quite a bit more cost-efficient to let our interstates crumble and develop rail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PokerPlayer1
I'm a huge public transit proponent and utilize it extensively myself, but 'playing pretend' is counterproductive and a retrograding force that detracts away from the legitimacy of projects that are realistic and do'able.
"Playing pretend" got us to the moon, and has been responsible for the lion's share of innovation in the last century. You're being condescending, not rational.
11-17-2008, 11:05 PM
11,975 posts, read
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Reputation: 4644
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drover
As big as our country is and as spread out as our metropolitan centers -- particularly west of the Mississippi -- air travel will be far, far more cost-effective way to connect distant cities and regions for the foreseeable future.
Not necessarily. There are ominous signs for the airline industry that hint that air travel will be an exclusive affair in the future. Rail corridors connecting distant cities in the U.S. exist already. This "future of fantasy" was realized in the freakin' 19th century! Non-stop travel may not be feasible between distant cities, but inter-city express trains are surely an option that has been tested in the distant past!
11-18-2008, 08:49 AM
2,329 posts, read
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Reputation: 1811
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lookout Kid
Not necessarily. There are ominous signs for the airline industry that hint that air travel will be an exclusive affair in the future. Rail corridors connecting distant cities in the U.S. exist already. This "future of fantasy" was realized in the freakin' 19th century! Non-stop travel may not be feasible between distant cities, but inter-city express trains are surely an option that has been tested in the distant past!
Amen. And I think its ridiculous that we live in the 21st century and the fastest our intercity trains can go is is what..80 mph? Thats the same speed we were at in the 1930's with the Zephyr. Japan is rolling out a line that will be over 200mph by 2010. Germany hits 180. France has maxed out at 370 on some test runs.
We are in the dark ages people, and getting woefully left behind.
11-18-2008, 09:00 AM
3,631 posts, read
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Reputation: 2039
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Avengerfire
Well you could take a bus.
I thought you hate Tennessee? Make whomever you are going to visit come here.
I am just playing around. Do not take it personal.
i do hate it. i'm pretty much driving down there on Xmas eve, turning around and coming back the day after Xmas. i've tried like hell to get them to come up here but they're all "omg what if the weather's bad!" i'm not doing it next year.
Drover, i wasn't asking for a non-stop trip on amtrak to LA. i would like to go to Nashville. 560 miles away, which could be done in 3-4 hours if we had decent high speed rail. Yes, Amtrak will go to Memphis and Birmingham, but those are both inconvenient and expensive to where I am going. but yes, i am unhappy because i refuse to take a plane, waste hours of my life sitting in o'hare or midway, and wind up getting a severe sinus infection after flying (which always ALWAYS happens after I fly).
but thanks for the condescension this morning, i needed it!
11-18-2008, 09:27 AM
Location: Chicago
4,688 posts, read
10,105,114 times
Reputation: 3207
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PokerPlayer1
And just to preemptivley cut off what's a certainty to come (because it's impossible to examine the cost of left-leaning fantasy projects where they won't rationalize the associated outlay as a matter relative to Iraq war expenditure); yes, yes, I know how much the war in Iraq costs, but we aren't talking about the costs associated with the War in Iraq.
Just because you were such an ass in this post.
Iraq earmarks $3 billion for Baghdad subway - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081117/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq_baghdad_subway - broken link)
But a Chicago to Nashville train, or any adequate regional transit, should forever remain a left-leaning fantasy.
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Urban houses (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Industry diversity
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Occupation diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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