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Old 11-20-2008, 05:45 PM
 
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I am a NYS-licensed, junior attorney who graduated from law school in 2007, and my fiancé is at the VP-level in finance. I recently resigned from my small (and quite awful) law firm, and, last week, my fiancé was laid off from his job. Having suddenly found ourselves both unemployed, having each lived in NYC for close to a decade, having grown tired of NYC life, and knowing that the NYC economy will be trending downwards at least through 2009, we have decided that now is as good of a time as any to leave NYC. We are considering five domestic cities - San Francisco, Boulder, Denver, Chicago, and DC.

Our primary concern with remaining is the supersaturation of attorneys in the NYC job market, and the consequential poor job prospects for junior attorneys, like me, with few years of experience behind their belts. We are also concerned with the steady decline of job opportunities for both attorneys and financial managers in NYC. That said, what should we expect of Chicago vis-à-vis job prospects in 2009, generally, and also vis-à-vis the legal and financial industries, specifically? What’s the word on the street? Stable? Trending upwards/downwards? Hiring freezes, layoffs?

Also, if anyone has additional and relevant info. about San Francisco, Boulder, Denver, or D.C., I’d appreciate that info, as well. I’m also happy to answer questions about NYC (and particularly questions re: where "it" is at in Brooklyn).

Thanks!
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:08 AM
 
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The job market is looking increasingly dire in Chicago with each passing week. It really seems like things are changing quickly and dramatically. I think the unemployment numbers for November and December will shock everyone when they come out.

I recently saw a forecast (PriceWaterhouseCoopers) that New York city would face 200,000 layoffs in 2009, and they predicted Chicago would fare better. This was two weeks ago, however, and the information is already obsolete.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,688 posts, read 10,057,484 times
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Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Good luck.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:42 AM
 
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I would NOT put too much faith in any "analyst" at this point -- just look at how accurate the Goldman guys were about 6 months ago: Expert Support Increases for Money Morning’s Prediction That Oil Prices Could Approach $200 a Barrel

My thoughts on the OP's original questions about a relocation and new employment:

#1 -- People with GOOD skills, who INTERVIEW well, and have CONTACTS generally can survive most downturns. If there are any doubts about your skills, how you interview and the value of your contacts the odds of survival fall WAY off...

#2 -- When you are OUT OF WORK it is at least 50% harder to get a new job than if you are in a job and looking. Similary a new job in a NEW city is about 50% tougher than landing a job where you have SOME connections.

#3 -- During downturns the odds of government sector employment growing are MUCH better than private sector.

#4 -- Two years of experience is NOT MUCH for law firm or VP of finance, even more so when firms are experiencing a "bounty of alternatives" -- if you have ANY specialized niche that you can target that may be worth considering.

#5 -- IN GENERAL, cities with "desirable lifestyle/living quality attributes" become EVEN MORESO during downturns, while cities with more challenging conditions TEND to present less competition...

My experience with "generic finance" & large/ midsized law firms in Chicago is that there are more cutting in the law firms right now. Finance in Chicago is much more diverse than in NYC -- in addition to the traditional banks (commercial, investment, retail) the Chicago market has a LARGE amount of healthcare/pharma, options/commodity, manufacturing, consumer products, real estate firms than have different issues than the NYC firms. In this environment the Chicago firms are less likely to slash the finance side of the house. FOr years, law firms in Chicago have been under pressure to justify the eye-popping salaries to junior associates from the mid-career partners and more experienced associates for some time -- now some of those same mid-career types have been shown the door...

Personally, I would work every contact I had and pin my hopes on the new administration needing a lot of fresh faces in DC!


(OTOH if you have GREAT connections in some place like Boulder it is a VERY small city and might see BIG changes under a "new direction" : http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/T...r-Economy.html)
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:01 AM
 
11,973 posts, read 31,622,124 times
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Since this is City-Data.com, I figured I would mention that the U.S. Census Bureau is about to start hiring a boat load of people, though the jobs are temporary ones.

My industry (architectural services) is getting clobbered right now. New layoffs every week. I've heard first-hand reports that several large consulting firms are "trimming the fat" right now with potentially more layoffs coming soon. Advertising has been plagued with layoffs.

I would not consider right now a good time to make a big career move. There are just too many qualified applicants out there for each position, and you don't want to be the last person hired since they are often targetted for layoffs. And it's a TERRIBLE time to be coming out of school. Sorry Gen Y.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:21 AM
 
Location: South Bay
7,226 posts, read 22,093,996 times
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Although I'm from LA, I've been checking out the Chicago forums for a little bit because I have an interview there next week. I am currently looking for a career change and had a great opportunity present itself in Chicago. I have also had multiple interviews in LA, including one job offer. I am a mid-level accountant/auditor with a specific specialization that not many people have experience with. Although this limits the number of positions that I am eligible for, it also puts me near the top of the candidate list for each position I apply to.

With that said, in order to find a job in these trying times, you'll need to somehow make yourself stand out, especially if you're applying for job with which you are competing with dozens of other people. You may just be better off riding out the storm in NYC, then moving on.
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Chicago
2,467 posts, read 12,210,241 times
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Law is different for many reasons. First, do you taken the Illinois bar? If not, I would really hold off until you have done this and pass (unless you are doing federal law). Even this, I have friends who have practiced law at great firms for 3+ years, have passed the IL bar, and some of them are having trouble finding new jobs in the city right now. You can also look into law temp firms, but you should secure that position before moving as well. I have no clue about finance, except that two of my friends who work in fiance have been laid off in the last week, yet one says their business is doing better than ever..... So, who knows?
So, in sum, I would say get jobs before you move!
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:29 PM
 
3,674 posts, read 8,624,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessiegirl_98 View Post
Law is different for many reasons. First, do you taken the Illinois bar? If not, I would really hold off until you have done this and pass (unless you are doing federal law). Even this, I have friends who have practiced law at great firms for 3+ years, have passed the IL bar, and some of them are having trouble finding new jobs in the city right now. You can also look into law temp firms, but you should secure that position before moving as well. I have no clue about finance, except that two of my friends who work in fiance have been laid off in the last week, yet one says their business is doing better than ever..... So, who knows?
So, in sum, I would say get jobs before you move!
To practice any law in any state, you must pass that state's bar. Federal or state, it doesn't matter.

As a JD CPA who worked in Chicago, I'll post more in a few minutes after I've had coffee.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Lincoln Park
838 posts, read 3,085,215 times
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According to the most recent labor statistics for Oct 2008, the unemployment rate in NYC is 5.7%, and 7.3% in Chicago. Of course they dont break down into more granular level like finance or law, but my general impression is that you will be moving to a worse labor market if you are moving to chicago from nyc
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:31 PM
 
3,674 posts, read 8,624,848 times
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Ok. First things first. "Finance" can mean a lot of things. Tellers working for banks get to call themselves "finance" workers.

So let's focus on the superstar jobs: upper management banking jobs, economic forecasting/analysis, actuarial exams (Let's say the 7+ range), accounting, et cetera. Basically, either highly paid consultants or upper management corporate jobs.

Chicago's equivalent of Wall Street is the CBOT. They're both financial markets. The similarities end there. In order to work on Wall Street, all that's required is a schlock MBA from Wharton or Harvard. The actual technicalities of "finance" are a secondary consideration, if that.

To work in Chicago's finance scene, you're going to need the heavy duty stuff. Programming skills, advanced math degrees, et cetera. Chicago's all about the technicalities. It's expertise in a highly demanding field. It has to do with what Chicago focuses on. Derivatives and other highly complex financial instruments require far more delicacy and knowledge than New York's "Buy low sell high!" modus operandi, and that's about as complex as NYC ever gets. See current global financial crisis for details.

So to answer your question, if your spouse is in "finance" s/he should be forewarned that their credentials may be found wanting when passed before a Chicago interviewer. It happens quite often, as many people from Manhattan's financial scene are now discovering.

With respect to law, law is as it ever was: As long as you went to a good law school and graduated at the top of your class, you can get a job anywhere.
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