will my flags come down?-humboldt pk invasion (Chicago: salon, contractor)

[Humboldt1]

I was out most of last week, so here are my thoughts on Humboldt Park:

Eevee and I used to be neighbors in Humboldt Park (I believe West Humboldt Park starts west of Pulaski though and I was north of grand avenue and she was south, a few blocks makes a big difference in that area). I still live there just east of Pulaski and just south of North avenue.

The Puerto Rican flags are cool and should remain on Division Street. That area is becoming more and more white all the time, particularly east of Humboldt Park. West of the Park gentrification has started, but will take longer. I don't see the areas south of grand and west of the park gentrifying for at least the next 5-10 years. Once you get as far south as Chicago west of the park it is straight up ghetto.

It is kinda like Ukranian Village or the Park itself (named after German naturalist). As the populations of these areas change, their history should be remembered. The flags are Puerto Ricans taking pride in their neighborhood (some say staking their claim), which is fine.

The sad thing about most blacks and many hispanics is that when they improve they generally move out of their neighborhoods such as Humboldt Park. Some stay, and do make things better, but many move to nicer areas of the city or suburbs for better schools and better living for them and their families. I wish more good hispanics would stick around and make things better in areas. Instead, it is the hipster mostly whites, followed by the yuppies (mostly white) who come in and improve things and ultimately displace those who were living there. It is unfair to blame whites for booting out the remaining minority and impoverished populations. The best and brightest hispanics (since I am talking about Humboldt Park) move out of these areas and typically don't stick around, though a few do.

Where I attend church in Logan Square with Puerto Ricans who have gone to college and gotten good jobs. Do they still live in Logan Square? No, one family lives in Wilmette. Another lives in Evanston. They only come back to their neighborhoods to attend church and possibly hang out on the weekends with old friends.

I am about as white as you can get (Big Ten education, from a hog and cattle farm in southern Indiana, family settled here in 1812 after moving from Pennsylvania, where they settled in 1726 after migrating from Switzerland) and I do see the point of Banx, as many of these Big 10 crowd are self-absorbed people who work downtown and only want to hang out with other yuppies at places like Barley Corn in Wrigleyville. People like that annoy me and I don't typically associate with them but from time to time (this weeked for example, when I was at 6 Corners in Wicker Park) I do. These people are often very one-dimensional. I don't typically like hanging around boring people. That is just my thing.

Banx,

I get annoyed with the "Big Ten" people as much as anyone, but they would certainly make better neighbors than gang bangers. However, I would much rather have poor, well-behaved people (most of my block) than a bunch of jackass college-educated drunks who party at all hours of the night making lots of noise. Still, if I could buy a place in Bucktown and Humboldt Park for the same price, I am going with Bucktown. There is a reason why Bucktown (even Wrigleyville with its parties) are priced higher than areas like Humboldt Park.

Diversity is not non-white. People tend to live around people that look like them. Oak Park is somewhat of an exception, but even Oak Park gets whiter as you west from Austin to River Forest. The most diverse neighborhoods are typically neighborhoods in transition. Humboldt Park, particularly east of the park, fits this description. West of the park, it is less diverse, being mostly hispanic (more mexican than puerto rican in the past 5 years) and some black, but even here it is very segregated. My block is almost all hispanic and just a few blocks south it is almost all black.

[Banx]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

I was out most of last week, so here are my thoughts on Humboldt Park:

Eevee and I used to be neighbors in Humboldt Park (I believe West Humboldt Park starts west of Pulaski though and I was north of grand avenue and she was south, a few blocks makes a big difference in that area). I still live there just east of Pulaski and just south of North avenue.

The Puerto Rican flags are cool and should remain on Division Street. That area is becoming more and more white all the time, particularly east of Humboldt Park. West of the Park gentrification has started, but will take longer. I don't see the areas south of grand and west of the park gentrifying for at least the next 5-10 years. Once you get as far south as Chicago west of the park it is straight up ghetto.

It is kinda like Ukranian Village or the Park itself (named after German naturalist). As the populations of these areas change, their history should be remembered. The flags are Puerto Ricans taking pride in their neighborhood (some say staking their claim), which is fine.

The sad thing about most blacks and many hispanics is that when they improve they generally move out of their neighborhoods such as Humboldt Park. Some stay, and do make things better, but many move to nicer areas of the city or suburbs for better schools and better living for them and their families. I wish more good hispanics would stick around and make things better in areas. Instead, it is the hipster mostly whites, followed by the yuppies (mostly white) who come in and improve things and ultimately displace those who were living there. It is unfair to blame whites for booting out the remaining minority and impoverished populations. The best and brightest hispanics (since I am talking about Humboldt Park) move out of these areas and typically don't stick around, though a few do.

Where I attend church in Logan Square with Puerto Ricans who have gone to college and gotten good jobs. Do they still live in Logan Square? No, one family lives in Wilmette. Another lives in Evanston. They only come back to their neighborhoods to attend church and possibly hang out on the weekends with old friends.

I am about as white as you can get (Big Ten education, from a hog and cattle farm in southern Indiana, family settled here in 1812 after moving from Pennsylvania, where they settled in 1726 after migrating from Switzerland) and I do see the point of Banx, as many of these Big 10 crowd are self-absorbed people who work downtown and only want to hang out with other yuppies at places like Barley Corn in Wrigleyville. People like that annoy me and I don't typically associate with them but from time to time (this weeked for example, when I was at 6 Corners in Wicker Park) I do. These people are often very one-dimensional. I don't typically like hanging around boring people. That is just my thing.

Banx,

I get annoyed with the "Big Ten" people as much as anyone, but they would certainly make better neighbors than gang bangers. However, I would much rather have poor, well-behaved people (most of my block) than a bunch of jackass college-educated drunks who party at all hours of the night making lots of noise. Still, if I could buy a place in Bucktown and Humboldt Park for the same price, I am going with Bucktown. There is a reason why Bucktown (even Wrigleyville with its parties) are priced higher than areas like Humboldt Park.

Diversity is not non-white. People tend to live around people that look like them. Oak Park is somewhat of an exception, but even Oak Park gets whiter as you west from Austin to River Forest. The most diverse neighborhoods are typically neighborhoods in transition. Humboldt Park, particularly east of the park, fits this description. West of the park, it is less diverse, being mostly hispanic (more mexican than puerto rican in the past 5 years) and some black, but even here it is very segregated. My block is almost all hispanic and just a few blocks south it is almost all black.

Well said, good post.

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

You are very ill-informed. Even though white people are gentrifying many neighborhoods, the net effect is still a loss of white people in the city. "White Flight" is still occuring in full force in many of the city's outlying neighborhoods, and the gentrifiers aren't replacing them in enough numbers to make up for the loss. So, since your definition of "diversity" seems to be a lack of white people, the city is more diverse than ever by your definition.

I think one of the reasons the gentrifiers aren't replacing those who are leaving the city is because there is no common bond that unifies the gentrifiers in the first place, at least not anything substantive, like an ethnicity that bonds others together and therefore forms an ethnic neighborhood. I mean, what bonds gentrifiers? (and I'm assuming that we are lumping yuppies and hipsters here). Aren't they sort of reaching for something (licking leaves, thinking anything/one non-white is "ethnic" or some sort of "other" experience, cool etc) to define themselves, some sort of common ground or identifying factor because they lack that bond? It then becomes some sort of disjointed, homogenous playing field, much like the one you speak of in places like Seattle and Portland (I am currently in Seattle purgatory, so.......)

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by cobolt

I think one of the reasons the gentrifiers aren't replacing those who are leaving the city is because there is no common bond that unifies the gentrifiers in the first place, at least not anything substantive, like an ethnicity that bonds others together and therefore forms an ethnic neighborhood. I mean, what bonds gentrifiers? (and I'm assuming that we are lumping yuppies and hipsters here). Aren't they sort of reaching for something (licking leaves, thinking anything/one non-white is "ethnic" or some sort of "other" experience, cool etc) to define themselves, some sort of common ground or identifying factor because they lack that bond? It then becomes some sort of disjointed, homogenous playing field, much like the one you speak of in places like Seattle and Portland (I am currently in Seattle purgatory, so.......)

This sort of cultural detachment is becoming the typical American experience. Life today is much more transient than it was in the past, and people are becoming more isolated from one another. Many don't know their neighbors. The average American now moves every five years, and 1 in 6 move every year (source: U.S. Census). The day of the isolated ethnic enclave that stays together for generations is ending, with the exception of "ghettos" where people are trapped because of poor job skills and lack of opportunity. Chicago's "gentrified" neighborhoods are just reflecting larger trends in demographics and economics.

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

This sort of cultural detachment is becoming the typical American experience. Life today is much more transient than it was in the past, and people are becoming more isolated from one another. Many don't know their neighbors. The average American now moves every five years, and 1 in 6 move every year (source: U.S. Census). The day of the isolated ethnic enclave that stays together for generations is ending, with the exception of "ghettos" where people are trapped because of poor job skills and lack of opportunity. Chicago's "gentrified" neighborhoods are just reflecting larger trends in demographics and economics.

I agree totally. I remember growing up in Chicago and knowing pretty much all the kids and their parents on my block and the one on the other side of the alley. You had neighbors who would watch over you if you were a latchkey kid and the folks were going to be late at work or whatever. You had neighbors who asked about your mother, father, etc, and would tattle on you if they saw you hanging with the kids who smoked cigarettes around the corner and such. Now, at least I notice this being older and having moved around alot due to career (so aren't I part of the problem?) that neighbors don't say hello. In fact, they go out of their way to go unnoticed, unbothered, unburdened by their neighbors. I've seen people here totally ignore their neighbors as they're taking out the trash or whatever. One of my co-workers told me that he only met his neighbor the other day. (they've been neighbors for 15 years). I used to let this bother me, especially when I would greet my neighbor and he/she would ignore me, and on some level it still bothers me. I'm not saying "let's go back to the old days, they were better" although there is something very familiar and comforting about it all. I'm just saying that I too have seen this social shift, which then changes neighborhood demographics until they become something very different.

[aragx6]

Air conditioning, TV and the internet are to blame for that. I don't like it either.

I always at least stop and say hi to my neighbors (at least the ones that live in my building) and I know their names. A lot of folks aren't like that, yet many of those same people have no problem calling someone a hypocrite or a liar on an anonymous web forum.

[Humboldt1]

I know the names of most of the people who live within 5 or 6 buildings of me. I always say hi to the neighbors. This morning I helped one of the neighbors scrape snow off their car. There is a sense of community in Humboldt Park, regardless of economics, that was missing in the townhome subdivision I used to live in Itasca. Often times, neighbors help push cars that are stuck in the snow and we all help each other dig out. I get annoyed at the people who mark their spots with lawn chairs but I do understand where they are coming from. I just drive around with a snow shovel when winter really hits so I can dig myself out or any neighbor in need. The sense of community and how we are all in this together is one of the most redeeming things I have seen in Humboldt Park vs. any other area.

TV and A/C have certainly destroyed much of the sense of community in urban areas, though many truly poor people do not have A/C and continue to hang out on front porches on hot days. Do not assume that every black or hispanic hanging out on the front porch of a building is a gang banger. Some are building residents who are simply trying to get out of the heat and enjoy the breeze. I don't endorse people hanging out on street corners for hours at a time.

[Banx]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

I know the names of most of the people who live within 5 or 6 buildings of me. I always say hi to the neighbors. This morning I helped one of the neighbors scrape snow off their car. There is a sense of community in Humboldt Park, regardless of economics, that was missing in the townhome subdivision I used to live in Itasca. Often times, neighbors help push cars that are stuck in the snow and we all help each other dig out. I get annoyed at the people who mark their spots with lawn chairs but I do understand where they are coming from. I just drive around with a snow shovel when winter really hits so I can dig myself out or any neighbor in need. The sense of community and how we are all in this together is one of the most redeeming things I have seen in Humboldt Park vs. any other area.

Yeah you can see where I'm coming from, alot of Chicago used to be like this, and unfortunately alot of that has been lost, and Humboldt Park's time seems to be running out too. And you have a good point in ur other post that caught my attention, about how alot of the new comers don't really have a common bond to keep a tight knit community together and don't really know their neighbors, etc. You are a good example of what I wish was coming to Chicago neighborhoods, who wanna keep the neighborhoods tight and alive, but instead were getting droves of the exact opposite. Keep doin what u do though.

[cobolt]

A/C, TV, Xboxes, Wii, blackberries, computers/internet (see how we're all socializing in our little community now---because something---Chicago, bonds us together, for as much bonding or facsimile thereof that can exist online).

Yes, technology is moving us "ahead," "forward," "advancing us," or whatever, yet you can't escape that technology changes how people operate, relate, and socialize.

Then you have the influx of people, although I tend to think this has less to do with losing the "authenticity" or "ethnic roots" (I'm not sure what to call it) of a city or neighborhood. Chicago was a city of 'old country" immigrants. I used to hear my parents say that alot "in the old country." I think it was that influx that made each neighborhood unique. Now it seems maybe the type of influx of people, or perhaps coupled with the times (present time and changing social dynamics) that are now erasing the very thing that was. Just a thought.

[Irishtom29]

Note how the gentrifiers put locked fences in front of their buildings, you never used to see that kind of thing. Such people fence off their stoops and don't sit on them anyway. Stoop sitting was a big part of neighborhood feeling.