White flight from SW side (Chicago, Blue Island: middle-class, landlord, university)

[ajolotl]

Yes, there are affluent majority black areas in and around Chicago. They might not exist as entire community areas, but those designations are often meaningless and unnatural anyhow. Parts of Kenwood, The Jackson Park Highlands part of South Shore, parts of Chatham, Bronzeville, and Morgan Park, some of the far south suburbs (as others have mentioned), etc immediately come to mind.

As far as I'm concerned it is ok for someone to live wherever they feel like they fit in. That can be with people of similar race, class, have nothing to do with either, or intentionally involve people who are very different. Live and let live.

[brainiac138]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

interesting discussion. what seems to be missing is the perspective that the Irish, Italians, Jews, Slavs, etc. were the original cause of "white flight" in Chicago.

You don't see any English or French neighborhoods, now do you?

My dad told me that the first time he met my mom's family one of them literally told him "you know, I remember when we had all the 'No Irish Need Apply' signs up in America - that's no really ancient history, you're talking about the late 1800s.

As for rioting, the first major riots in Chicago were nativist vs. Catholics and Germans - do some reading on the Lager Beer Riot, they were shooting people in the street.

actually, the "memory" of No Irish Need Apply signs is all been debunked. There were very few, if any NINA signs in the United States, and really occurred in England after riots or other forms of strife.

Richard Jensen from the History Department at UIC has written about this mistaken victimization.

Check it out here.
Richard J. Jensen - "No Irish Need Apply": A Myth of Victimization - Journal of Social History 36:2

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by meatpuff

Yeah, I'm with Sleepy, I'm not seeing this and I don't think it's widespread. Do you know an especially large amount of affluent blacks who are telling you this all the time? How did you get this notion? I have heard blacks say stuff like this on the evening news, but have you checked the blacks you have heard this from are affluent?

Well, of the few upper-middle income blacks and Hispanics with whom I am loosely acquainted, yeah. It seems that charges of "racism" are quick to rise in the context of declining standard of living in low to middle income white neighborhoods as a direct (and undeniable) result of "racial integration".

I mean, the corollary between "non white" and "neighborhood standards going down hill" in traditionally low to middle income neighborhoods isn't exactly entirely in the realm of theory. While we can argue root-cause socioeconomic theory till we're blue in the face, that doesn't change the fact that the residents of those still have to live with the real world, non-theoretical consequences.

Whenever I've had this discussion, it's usually in the context of the East Side and Hegewisch neighborhoods, that pretty much went off the 'standard of living' cliff in the past 10 years as a result of racial balances skewing (predominantly Hispanic, but with an ever increasing low-income black presence), stemming from certain real estate valuation metrics being generally favorable to increased Section 8 housing in those areas, compounded by an aging real estate stock, an aging white population that was leaving or dying off, etc .

Based on my experiences, middle to upper middle income blacks want the same things white people do and of the few I do know, aren't the sort of people you would worry about moving in next door. Still, I think there is a lot of visceral baggage on this issue, where accomplished blacks feel the need to rise to defend (or illegitimately rationalize away) the behaviors of their less civilized brethren, any time a white person dare be so forthright as to mention the racial X factor involved.

They seem to think that legitimate "socioeconomic explanations" are really "socioeconomic excuses". Just because one can identify a probable root cause doesn't mean that said cause eliminates real time culpability, or the thus-neglected-by-too-many-Blacks cultural imperative to better ones lot. .

[anoroc]

Originally Posted by PokerPlayer1

Are you black?
If so, what would you think about a poster from your hometown in "the deep south" coming on and inquiring about "majority white" suburbs?
Your classification of him as a "redneck" and "ignorant" would probably beat light speed.

One of the more hilarious hypocrisies perpetrated by many Chicago blacks who have hauled up their own bootstraps and done well for themselves is the perpetual desire to insist that white people (particularly middle income, blue collar ones) must support "integration" in their own neighborhoods lest they be "racist", yet they themselves are the first ones to get the hell away from the very ghetto standard of living that is an almost inevitable consequence of low/middle income integration, either off to whatever "affluent black" area they can find, or straight into a white one. When they get out of the ghetto, it's just bein' George and Weezy. When the ghetto moves in on white folks, well, they'd better be OK with that or else racist racist racist!

I think the answer to you question/comments is; are you running from blacks or are you running from the “ghetto” because there are two totally different things. My assumption is that the more affluent blacks are just looking for a better alternative than to the “ghetto” but does not rule out living amongst other blacks.

Reminder when you reduce the poor down to skin color/ethnicities as if it’s the only dominator that my friend is racism.

[Sleepy09]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

Yes, there are affluent majority black areas in and around Chicago. They might not exist as entire community areas, but those designations are often meaningless and unnatural anyhow. Parts of Kenwood, The Jackson Park Highlands part of South Shore, parts of Chatham, Bronzeville, and Morgan Park, some of the far south suburbs (as others have mentioned), etc immediately come to mind.

As far as I'm concerned it is ok for someone to live wherever they feel like they fit in. That can be with people of similar race, class, have nothing to do with either, or intentionally involve people who are very different. Live and let live.

I guess my question should've been -- "Are there parts of Chicago where affluent Blacks can live without fear of their neighbors leaving and where good schools systems (with a good amount of diversity) exist?" I am comfortable with (and prefer) less affluent neighborhoods as a renter with no children, but if I decide to stay permanently, then I just wanted to be sure there were areas where investing in a home would be stable & secure for me and my future family.

[ajolotl]

Yes, if stable integration is the issue (rather than majority black) then you have quite a few options. I would add South Loop, Hyde Park, Beverly, Rogers Park, Evanston, Oak Park, etc to the mix in that case (taking the liberty of including some near-in suburbs). There are quite a few more -- those come to mind off the top of my head. These areas have a history of inclusiveness and aren't simply transitioning from one extreme to the other. They also each have some decent school options, though with CPS it's always buyer beware.

Originally Posted by Sleepy09

I guess my question should've been -- "Are there parts of Chicago where affluent Blacks can live without fear of their neighbors leaving and where good schools systems (with a good amount of diversity) exist?" I am comfortable with (and prefer) less affluent neighborhoods as a renter with no children, but if I decide to stay permanently, then I just wanted to be sure there were areas where investing in a home would be stable & secure for me and my future family.

[ajolotl]

This forum has got be the most accomplished collection of talent in the western hemisphere. Criticize anyone and there is no end to their list of talents and physical prowess. Even PP owns a collection of books bigger than a library and has an investment portfolio more cleverly managed than Warren Buffet. Far from being ugly and feeble, he is 6-04, 220 of mostly solid muscle, and was a D1 athlete of some sort in college, just like pretty much everyone else. Now we have an orator that will make Aristotle weep. I feel so lucky.

[Huckleberry3911948]

yep its bad but far far worse is black flight, smart educated leaders successful rich & role models movin on up to good white neighborhoods and leaving the poo folk far being, effect on urban america devestating.
its not all about the white folks is it.
signed
a non white

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

This forum has got be the most accomplished collection of talent in the western hemisphere. Criticize anyone and there is no end to their list of talents and physical prowess. Even PP owns a collection of books bigger than a library and has an investment portfolio more cleverly managed than Warren Buffet. Far from being ugly and feeble, he is 6-04, 220 of mostly solid muscle, and was a D1 athlete of some sort in college, just like pretty much everyone else. Now we have an orator that will make Aristotle weep. I feel so lucky.

Yeah, its too bad we're all anonymous so there's no way we can impress each other first hand.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Yeah, its too bad we're all anonymous so there's no way we can impress each other first hand.

Well, Jesse69 isn't exactly anonymous. You couldn't make that stuff up if you tried!