White flight from SW side (Chicago, Oak Lawn: organic, living in, moving)

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by otters21

However I do have a question, out of curiousity - how is the public transit access and the housing stock in Hegewisch and the SE side of Chicago? If public transit is not too good and housing stock being ho-hum, I have to agree that maybe taking a stand could a hard sell in that area. Walkable, affordable , safe areas with good public transit and access to shops,bars and restaurants etc are in great need for the average blue collar Joe.

It's a South Shore stop (Hegewisch) and has busses- I know Metra for sure, I think CTA too.
There are bars- old neighborhood "corner bars" that were put in back when zoning laws allowed for that sort of stuff.bThe housing stock is aging, but very solid. There are some really cool brick/stone bungalow type houses on the upper end of town. It's pretty safe- deteriorating a bit- but an outright 'Mr. Rogers Neighborhood' by far southside standards.

People have been waiting for Hegewisch to die for 30 years. It's finally entered the hospital. I seriously doubt it will get out alive, this time.
The fact is, while it's "Chicago" in theory, in no way does it resemble what one thinks of when they think of Chicago. It's far, far away from the city center (literally, it's like a medium Par 5 from where I'm sitting to the Indiana border), not to mention it's completely surrounded by grotesque areas. Save for wee little Old Burnham which seems to be holding out well, everything around it is a dump- most of the surrounding areas are recent "ethnic change" cautionary tales in themselves, which offer a stark, geographically immediate preview of what is most likely in store for poor old Hegewisch.

Parts of Hegewisch will probably be white for a long time (just like parts of East Side will be- blue collar people are a bit more prone to living and dying in family homes than cosmo city types) but there's just no escaping it; every single factor is in play for it's demise, starting with the investors math that goes into Section 8 housing and drifting downward from there into demographic stuff. Much like East Side, in another 10 or 15 years, it will look Tijuana with the occasional 80 year old Polock wandering around, wondering WTF happened to his neighborhood.

Hegewisch just doesn't have 'that thing' going for it; "that thing" that motivates white people to hold out at all costs.
It doesn't have a great view, it isn't in "the perfect location"- it's actually quite inconvenient to everything unless you work at the Ford plant, the steel mills or mug weekenders at the poker tables in Hammond. It doesn't have spectacular architecture, the district schools are awful- there's just nothing here that would cause white people to say "the hell with them, I'm staying. I can't get this anywhere else..." because frankly, they can do better. Easily.

Of the 'changing' city areas that I hope keep their white complexion, Hegewisch is definitely near the top of the list. It's deeply blue collar and I hate to see blue collar people (and their affordable areas) constantly getting wiped out of cities, displaced by ghetto and filth. Still, what I'd like to see and what's probably going to happen are two different things.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by otters21

Been there, done that -there is a success story in my neighborhood on the north side of Columbus Ohio -It was declining in the early 2000s and since we moved there in 2006 it has IMPROVED big time! People have took a stand. NO, I AM NOT TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO TO DO ( I do not appreciate the insinuations- it is their own choice) but in todays economy many blue collar Joe's cannot afford to give into white or middle class flight into car oriented far out suburbs or exurbs. Face it, gas prices are soaring and the auto industry is not doing so well. I have no desire to fight or argue but IMHO white or middle flight is not the answer in todays economy. However you are entitled to your own opinion. By the way my neighborhood was alot like SE Chicago and since the neighbors took a stand it has gotten much better. Hopefully the same will happen on the SE side of Chicago. However I do have a question, out of curiousity - how is the public transit access and the housing stock in Hegewisch and the SE side of Chicago? If public transit is not too good and housing stock being ho-hum, I have to agree that maybe taking a stand could a hard sell in that area. Walkable, affordable , safe areas with good public transit and access to shops,bars and restaurants etc are in great need for the average blue collar Joe.

Far-out suburbs or exurbs? We're talking Whiting and Munster here.

[otters21]

Originally Posted by PokerPlayer1

It's a South Shore stop (Hegewisch) and has busses- I know Metra for sure, I think CTA too.
There are bars- old neighborhood "corner bars" that were put in back when zoning laws allowed for that sort of stuff.bThe housing stock is aging, but very solid. There are some really cool brick/stone bungalow type houses on the upper end of town. It's pretty safe- deteriorating a bit- but an outright 'Mr. Rogers Neighborhood' by far southside standards.

People have been waiting for Hegewisch to die for 30 years. It's finally entered the hospital. I seriously doubt it will get out alive, this time.
The fact is, while it's "Chicago" in theory, in no way does it resemble what one thinks of when they think of Chicago. It's far, far away from the city center (literally, it's like a medium Par 5 from where I'm sitting to the Indiana border), not to mention it's completely surrounded by grotesque areas. Save for wee little Old Burnham which seems to be holding out well, everything around it is a dump- most of the surrounding areas are recent "ethnic change" cautionary tales in themselves, which offer a stark, geographically immediate preview of what is most likely in store for poor old Hegewisch.

Parts of Hegewisch will probably be white for a long time (just like parts of East Side will be- blue collar people are a bit more prone to living and dying in family homes than cosmo city types) but there's just no escaping it; every single factor is in play for it's demise, starting with the investors math that goes into Section 8 housing and drifting downward from there into demographic stuff. Much like East Side, in another 10 or 15 years, it will look Tijuana with the occasional 80 year old Polock wandering around, wondering WTF happened to his neighborhood.

Hegewisch just doesn't have 'that thing' going for it; "that thing" that motivates white people to hold out at all costs.
It doesn't have a great view, it isn't in "the perfect location"- it's actually quite inconvenient to everything unless you work at the Ford plant, the steel mills or mug weekenders at the poker tables in Hammond. It doesn't have spectacular architecture, the district schools are awful- there's just nothing here that would cause white people to say "the hell with them, I'm staying. I can't get this anywhere else..." because frankly, they can do better. Easily.

Of the 'changing' city areas that I hope keep their white complexion, Hegewisch is definitely near the top of the list. It's deeply blue collar and I hate to see blue collar people (and their affordable areas) constantly getting wiped out of cities, displaced by ghetto and filth. Still, what I'd like to see and what's probably going to happen are two different things.

If this ugliness ( section 8 etc.) continues to hurt the blue collar areas where is average working Joe to be able to afford to move to? They certainly cannot afford car oriented suburbs or exurbs with soaring gas prices and the way the auto industry is today.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by otters21

If this ugliness ( section 8 etc.) continues to hurt the blue collar areas where is average working Joe to be able to afford to move to? They certainly cannot afford car oriented suburbs or exurbs with soaring gas prices and the way the auto industry is today.

So true, but this liberal government will only push section 8 even harder, ruining our middle class, blue collar areas. It is sad and this damage may be irreversible. I feel the goverments plan in regards to section 8 and the projects was that if you take a pile of crap in leave it in one concentrated area, it smells real bad. But when you spread this manure evenly across the country, it may not smell as bad.

[ajolotl]

I think what will happen is eventually not every township will "turn" when the Section 8 influence and (likely) crime picks up. Maybe PP is right that Hegewisch will (his argument is solid), but lots of near-in and relatively near-in suburbs e.g. southwest of the city will just become more racially diverse, or have pockets of minorities and/or section 8'ers alongside working class people. Look at Oak Lawn, Evergreen, Summit, Alsip, etc. There are only so many places to go and so many bad people to chase them away. Many areas, even blue collar ones, will become more mixed. People will have to learn to deal with each other.

Of course if you have money you can always escape. I'm talking specifically about working class.

[Manigault]

The misnomer about Section 8 and changes in townships is that fact that much of the money goes to folks who are already residents of the areas. (See the Smithtown, NY thread about a town's hijinks in this area.) So the funds do not necessarily change the makeup of the citizenry of a particular locale.

So folks will have to find different reasons for a region's demise.

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by Manigault

The misnomer about Section 8 and changes in townships is that fact that much of the money goes to folks who are already residents of the areas. (See the Smithtown, NY thread about a town's hijinks in this area.) So the funds do not necessarily change the makeup of the citizenry of a particular locale.

So folks will have to find different reasons for a region's demise.

I *think* I understood what you were trying to say there.
In any event, you should come on down to Hegewisch and let everyone know that what exists right before their very eyes has been negated by this innovative theory!

Academia!
Hip Hip--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hooray!

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by PokerPlayer1

I *think* I understood what you were trying to say there.
In any event, you should come on down to Hegewisch and let everyone know that what exists right before their very eyes has been negated by this innovative theory!

Don't confuse a precursor with a cause.

[otters21]

Originally Posted by Drover

Far-out suburbs or exurbs? We're talking Whiting and Munster here.

I have googled both towns with mapblast birds eye view. While Munster appears to be more newer suburbia type (nothing wrong with that -everyone has different tastes ), I am pleasantly surprised about how urban looking Whiting is. It appears to be a viable affordable option for blue collar Joe with older interesting housing stock and it seems somewhat walkable. I'm suprised the yuppies haven't yet discover it only being 15 miles from the Loop and close to the lake. I just hope the ghetto trash ,section 8 and crime will not ruin that town.

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by otters21

I have googled both towns with mapblast birds eye view. While Munster appears to be more newer suburbia type (nothing wrong with that -everyone has different tastes ), I am pleasantly surprised about how urban looking Whiting is. It appears to be a viable affordable option for blue collar Joe with older interesting housing stock and it seems somewhat walkable. I'm suprised the yuppies haven't yet discover it only being 15 miles from the Loop and close to the lake. I just hope the ghetto trash ,section 8 and crime will not ruin that town.

Whiting's ok if you don't breathe the air. What do you think it is like living next to a major oil refinery plus a Lever Bros. rendering outfit? My, my -- the effluvia! It has a great pierogi festival, too.

Whiting happens to be a suburb noted for harshness toward any different type of ethnic group trying to move in, however.

Why don't you try Marktown? No ghetto trash or section 8 there! However, it is totally encompassed by a steel mill, so the folks are somewhat strange.