White flight from SW side (Chicago, Oak Lawn: condo, mortgages, how much)

[ajolotl]

Have racial attitudes changed enough in Chicago where a neighborhood the Ashburn might conceivably maintain a stable racial balance, or is it a foregone conclusion that whites will move out and it will be overwhelmingly African American in the very near future? Driving around the trend seems to be for whites to leave the area, particularly the Wrightwood section on the east side.

I know the history of the south side but don't have a good feel how much racial attitudes have evolved since the 60s/70s. Is there any hope or is the old white flight model still pretty much in play? Same question could go for Evergreen Park just to the south, and then Oak Lawn. Beverly is the only nearby neighborhood where stable integration has been achieved to some extent. I don't see why this model cannot be replicated in nearby communities. Would value some other opinions ...

[Lookout Kid]

There are only so many African Americans to go around in the Chicago area, so you just can't assume that EVERY outlying neighborhood or suburb close to the ghetto will go 90%+ black. Eventually we're going to run out of black people to scare the white people away! (Yes, this is tongue in cheek).

But yeah, that area is a pretty good candidate for was is often called "white flight". Sometimes whites that flee aren't replaced with anyone at all, and the population just drops (like Detroit).

[ajolotl]

... or Washington Park. According to Wikipedia from 1950 to 2000 the total population of the neighborhood declined from 57,000 to 14,146. Yuppies will be moving in relatively soon (2-10 years), accelerated by but no dependent on the olympics.

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

But yeah, that area is a pretty good candidate for was is often called "white flight". Sometimes whites that flee aren't replaced with anyone at all, and the population just drops (like Detroit).

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

... or Washington Park. According to Wikipedia from 1950 to 2000 the total population of the neighborhood declined from 57,000 to 14,146. Yuppies will be moving in relatively soon (2-10 years), accelerated by but no dependent on the olympics.

And the Univ of Chicago expanding into the area.

[meatpuff]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

... or Washington Park. According to Wikipedia from 1950 to 2000 the total population of the neighborhood declined from 57,000 to 14,146. Yuppies will be moving in relatively soon (2-10 years), accelerated by but no dependent on the olympics.

Yuppies moving into a neighborhood surrounded on three sides (and part of the fourth) by some of the worst ghettoes in Chicago? And with a park 1/3 mile across on the fourth side separating it from anything else? Is there any precedent for this?

We'll see.

[ajolotl]

I agree it's a tough sell, but Hyde Park has gotten so expensive with non-university people with money increasingly interested in moving there over the years. I have two friends who bought in a building around 52nd and King -- 189K for a very nice condo. Also the area to the north is improving, however slowly. I think the key will be if the UofC police expand patrol west of cottage.

I do agree though that there are no certainties, just one person's vibe. I'll lay money down on Woodlawn, though, east of cottage and north of 67th. I see very clearly what is going on there.

Originally Posted by meatpuff

Yuppies moving into a neighborhood surrounded on three sides (and part of the fourth) by some of the worst ghettoes in Chicago? And with a park 1/3 mile across on the fourth side separating it from anything else? Is there any precedent for this?

We'll see.

[snoylekim]

Washington Park 'white flight' started in the 1920s and 1930s because of the expansion of the traditional 'black belt' eastward and the depression .. Unless the neighborhood is very renovated or totally gutted ( good chance w/ the Olympics), don't look for white 'yuppification' anytime soon ( maybe in 15-20 years, but who knows) .. and U of C is probably only 'land banking' or investing.. don't look for any plans for U of C facilities in that area at least until after an Olympic decision is made and the future of the area is more certain ..

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by snoylekim

Washington Park 'white flight' started in the 1920s and 1930s because of the expansion of the traditional 'black belt' eastward and the depression .. Unless the neighborhood is very renovated or totally gutted ( good chance w/ the Olympics), don't look for white 'yuppification' anytime soon ( maybe in 15-20 years, but who knows) .. and U of C is probably only 'land banking' or investing.. don't look for any plans for U of C facilities in that area at least until after an Olympic decision is made and the future of the area is more certain ..

Agreed.

[snoylekim]

I should add that a lot of the 'white flight' that occurred between 1919 and 1940 would be more accurately categorized as 'white fight' .. Cars, expressways, bedroom suburbs with 10% down mortgages didn't exist for the working and lower middle classes during that era, so the 'flight' opportunties were a bit more challenging .. I don't recall exactly, but I think some areas of WP were heavily impacted by the Riots of 1919 and the post-riot shenanigans that were occuring..

[Huckleberry3911948]

very interesting
when they move out its called white flight
when they move in its called gentrificaton.
a former south side cisero resident