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Old 03-06-2009, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,233 posts, read 8,020,324 times
Reputation: 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
You're spot on. Don't let the diversions about agricultural subsidies of corn and soybeans and cost/benefit ratios of fast food to groceries throw you off on this. The situation is pretty much as you describe. You're backtracking because your position isn't being acknowledged by those who you're arguing with. Nor can it be. The trouble is that most liberals cannot assign responsibility to those who are living in a poor state of affairs so they look to other sources to attribute the problems to (usually Corporate America, the Government, or rich white people). That doesn't help anyone though. You need to understand a problem before you can fix it, not lie to yourself about what's causing it.
So you don't think getting rid of subsidies is a good idea? Maybe the current generation is a lost cause (habits learned in childhood are very difficult to change later on), but I'd argue that changing the incentive structure + education can make a marginal difference in the lives and health of future generations.
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,300 posts, read 5,906,542 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
No. They blame Corporate America, rich white people, and the Government Again, too bad. Really shifts the focus away from what needs to be done.
I don't think anyone in here is really making that argument.

I can only reiterate what I've already stated. Ultimately, every individual is responsible for his/her own decisions. However, our current government policies make those decisions much more difficult than necessary.
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
2,124 posts, read 4,069,300 times
Reputation: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipcromer View Post
So the part of the spectrum that wants to increase government, sees government as the problem.

Got it, thanks for the help.

Also, thanks for turning this into a political thread. It was great for about 8 pages.
Turning a thread about a major urban problem into PBJ sandwiches versus $1 McCheesburgers doesn't fit my definition of great discourse. It diverts us from the true issue, IMHO. But, if you think it is, please continue. This is going to be my last post in this thread anyway. Head has met wall to the point where I'm getting dizzy.

Sukwoo -- I didn't say ending agricultural subsidies is or is not a good idea. If this were a vote, I'd ask to abstain. I haven't done enough research on the topic to make an informed decision on what's surely a complex matter that reaches into several areas of the U.S. economy. Corn and soybeans, for example, are used to make scores of products, not just junk foods. I'm sure you've been to the Museum of Science and Industry, no? There are thousands of uses for soybeans, including healthy food, plastics, drugs, antibiotics, cleaners, fuel, etc. And what impact would this have on U.S. trade policy? I have no idea.

If it was just a matter of subsidizing junk food then yes, I'd end them. But somehow, I have a suspicion that we're not getting the full story from the one editorial.
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:41 PM
 
362 posts, read 484,899 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
I would say it is a big part of it. Heck people even steal from Aldi's!
it's funny becuase where I'm at they steal it down the street and sell it to the corner store, where the owner will gladly buy it at a discount. LOL

The mentality of the hood is so prevalent, it's not even funny
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:14 PM
 
1,802 posts, read 3,130,961 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Turning a thread about a major urban problem into PBJ sandwiches versus $1 McCheesburgers doesn't fit my definition of great discourse.
You didnt seem to have an issue with it, considering how many times you posted on the matter.
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:40 PM
 
504 posts, read 884,312 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67
And would that be the end of the problem? I’ve heard obesity blamed in fast food. I’ve also heard it blamed on inability to exercise due to the ‘hood being too dangerous, about low income schools lacking P.E. programs (which directly correlates to the lack of desirability of their surrounding neighborhoods), lack of green space in urban areas to frolic in, etc., etc. Bottom line is that the true problem boils down to negative and inexcusable behaviors among certain groups of people.

It’s comfortable to blame government policy for that but I think we lose out on a lot of insight and perhaps ultimate solutions when we focus on red herrings instead of the root causes of the behavior.
Completely disagree. Unless you believe poor people are innately reckless and self-destructive (that is, compared to yourself) you'd have to recognize the problems of obesity and poor health in these communities as STRUCTURAL. Maybe the agricultural subsidy theory doesn't account for these problems all by itself (how could it) but to pretend that everybody has an equal opportunity to be healthy in our society is ridiculous. You have named a bunch of reasons, many of them valid, that a poor, urban individual might be more obese/unhealthy. There are of course a lot more, less tangible (but no less structural) factors that have been cited in this thread. But for some reason you've decided that because no single theory explains the problem, you can dismiss them all and say "it's just their fault!"

This is a lot like a certain kind of subtle racism towards poor black people. Many people act like they are "telling it like it is" by saying that in Chicago more violent crimes are committed by black people than white people. This may be true, but unless you believe that black people are innately criminal, lawless, primitive, you would have acknowledge that there are historical, structural factors that our society is the way it is today. And yes, historical, structural factors contribute to something as intangible as an "attitude."

Sorry, but you're not going to "fix the problem" in either case by "assigning responsibility." But it does make you feel pretty good about your own lifestyle, right?
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
10,782 posts, read 14,516,391 times
Reputation: 5334
I did not read all 12 pages of replies. Where I live small grocers cannot compete with lower prices a large chain stores. I won'at buy $1.50 for a can of diced tomato from the grocer down the street if I when I can go to Aldi's and pay 1/3 of the price and by a case and save $12. The neigborhood stores that survive ara niche stores that sell specialty items such as the butcher who sells five kinds of sausage he makes in his stores and cuts meat to order.
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago
4,300 posts, read 5,906,542 times
Reputation: 2264
Then there's this.
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:55 PM
 
1,802 posts, read 3,130,961 times
Reputation: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiddy View Post
Then there's this.
LOL deep fried White Castle burger.
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Old 03-06-2009, 06:21 PM
 
Location: #
9,606 posts, read 9,373,455 times
Reputation: 6152
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipcromer View Post
LOL deep fried White Castle burger.
Very appropriate seeing that one has to be fried to go there in the first place.
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