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I was in the only CPS school for pregnant girls that is still open (Theolene Simpson - there used to be 2 others but they have been closed because of funding,) a few months ago and sat in a class of 12-13 year-old girls. Obviously, it was really depressing. I asked the teacher how she could teach in that classroom without getting really discouraged, and she told me that 2/3 of the girls in that class had been raped, most by a family member. Rape is a huge issue in ultra-low icome communities which isn't talked about very much, but happens much more than we think.
Now, if you want to go ahead and blame women for deciding to have tons of children and not look at the cultural, economic and perhaps other factors such as rape which might be a part of the problem - you are placing blame instead of truly searching for the root of the problem, which you don't seem to genuinely care about anyways.
The only way to fix the problems in these communities - and they are all related and stem from poverty, gangs, and violence - is breaking the cycle of violence through education and people actually putting effort into changing these communities.
I was in the only CPS school for pregnant girls that is still open (Theolene Simpson - there used to be 2 others but they have been closed because of funding,) a few months ago and sat in a class of 12-13 year-old girls. Obviously, it was really depressing. I asked the teacher how she could teach in that classroom without getting really discouraged, and she told me that 2/3 of the girls in that class had been raped, most by a family member. Rape is a huge issue in ultra-low icome communities which isn't talked about very much, but happens much more than we think.
Now, if you want to go ahead and blame women for deciding to have tons of children and not look at the cultural, economic and perhaps other factors such as rape which might be a part of the problem - you are placing blame instead of truly searching for the root of the problem, which you don't seem to genuinely care about anyways.
The only way to fix the problems in these communities - and they are all related and stem from poverty, gangs, and violence - is breaking the cycle of violence through education and people actually putting effort into changing these communities.
I find it very hard to believe that 2/3 of those girls were raped. I simply don't believe what that teacher is telling you. If that were the case, the media would be all over it.
Secondly, referring to my original post, how do you think these people find themselves in poverty in the first place? It's because they're getting pregnant, dropping out, getting pregnant again and boom, by the time they're 23, they have 4 kids, no job and live on welfare in the projects. The kids have no positive role models, no father figure, no guidance, and no discipline and eventually do what most kids do in those situations: many of them find trouble. Then the cycle repeats itself and the original mother finds herself becoming a grandma at 34!!! That's the culture that needs to be changed.
Agreed that there are definitely cycles like the one you mention - but how do we break these cycles? By blaming them for the fact that they have no opportunities to become educated, have good health care, get jobs? how do we break the cycles of violence which are much more prevolent than you and most people admit, especially against women and young girls which do not make the news because no one cares - much the same way that teen shootings never made the news until recently?
There are many organizations, (mostly non-profits which themselves are struggling for funding at a time when funders themselves have seen their assets tank,) which are dedicated to providing health care and health education, job training, anti-violence campaigns, and leadership programs for youth in low-income neighborhoods around Chicago. You also hardly ever hear of them. It's such a huge problem and people are happy to ignore it and even blame the people who have a gazillion barriers against them having a successful, happy life because of the situation they were born into, or take the attitude "screw them - as long as they stay in their neighborhood." It becomes a classic "us" versus "them" case which it shouldn't be.
Location: The great, formidable City of Chicago, Illinois
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I honestly don't think Lenniel has said much that's terribly offensive here. I think many of us agree that illegitimacy, teenage mothers, poverty conditions, and a culture that makes thugs into heroes and educated people into villains is a large part of the blame. Some on the left do refuse to admit this and put all of the blame on institutional and personal racism, but most reasonable people can see that the problem is more complicated than that and has many root causes.
But the guy saying black people shouldn't be allowed to own guns is a blatant racist. That's basically calling for a return to Jim Crow!
I'm often called a liberal on this board (even though I consider myself a centrist), but I pretty much completely agree with lenniel on this point. Stricter gun laws do nothing in a climate where guns are readily available to criminals. And guns are always going to be readily available as long as the second ammendment is in effect and there is a supply of existing guns to go out on the black market.
Now, I personally wouldn't mind a repeal of the second ammendment--and a large-scale meltdown of existing guns. If the supply of existing guns was reduced greatly and the black market squashed, we would have a situation like Europe where guns just aren't that common--and gun violence is rare. But guns last a LONG time in working order, and this is politically impossible. So, while the second ammendment is in effect and we are indeed swimming in available firearms, I see no point in stricter gun laws. And I personally wouldn't mind owning a handgun in this climate, if they were legal in Chicago and my wife changed her mind about them.
There is nothing centrist about wanting to repeal a portion (ANY PORTION) of the Bill of Rights.
Clearly 'looser' gun laws and concealed carry works for 48 other states. Violence is going down in those states.
The FOID law in IL already bans straw purchases, bans gun sales to criminals, and even bans ammunition sales if you don't have a FOID card. More laws aren't helping.
Has anyone read the book, More Guns, Less Crime by John Lott?
Location: The great, formidable City of Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJaye
There is nothing centrist about wanting to repeal a portion (ANY PORTION) of the Bill of Rights.
Okay, I'm a flaming liberal on this issue. The centrist part of my statement is my agreement that gun control laws are useless with the current state of the Constitution (or at least the current interpretation of the Second Ammendment).
Location: The great, formidable City of Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loudes13
Clearly 'looser' gun laws and concealed carry works for 48 other states. Violence is going down in those states.
The FOID law in IL already bans straw purchases, bans gun sales to criminals, and even bans ammunition sales if you don't have a FOID card. More laws aren't helping.
Has anyone read the book, More Guns, Less Crime by John Lott?
That book has been refuted by many statisticians. This is an issue where people are quoting cherry-picked sources that fit their view, and the sources quoted by both sides seem generally useless.
I honestly don't think Lenniel has said much that's terribly offensive here. I think many of us agree that illegitimacy, teenage mothers, poverty conditions, and a culture that makes thugs into heroes and educated people into villains is a large part of the blame. Some on the left do refuse to admit this and put all of the blame on institutional and personal racism, but most reasonable people can see that the problem is more complicated than that and has many root causes.
There is no doubt that it's a complicated issue, and I also don't believe that people can change unless they want to. Yet, placing blame on whole communities or groups of people as a whole isn't right either. He did seem to simplify it himself - single moms raising kids with no positive male role models. There are so many factors - poverty, a crappy education system, drugs, gangs, violence....
But there are many people from within those communities that want it to be different, and I don't think it's ignorant to say that there are institutional factors which don't let them - there most definitely are! Not everyone makes thugs into heroes and many people from those communities are pretty damned sick of it.
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