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Old 03-19-2009, 06:39 PM
 
6,365 posts, read 8,614,450 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy View Post
If I was to move to Chicago, I would bring my gun. No ifs, ands, butts about it. What the heck is criminal about protecting your property and yourself in the middle of the night????

Anybody know what the penalty is if you blow away a crack head without a registered gun?
So you'll be one of that 1%, eh?
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,785 posts, read 3,630,227 times
Reputation: 1490
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
So you'll be one of that 1%, eh?
Yes.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:52 PM
 
Location: southern california
48,930 posts, read 45,153,672 times
Reputation: 39889
there are not worried about the bad guys. its what the good guys do about the bad guys that worry them.
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Houston Texas
1,003 posts, read 1,582,679 times
Reputation: 234
Also wants be the 1 %
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago--Bucktown
425 posts, read 872,026 times
Reputation: 168
It's already pretty well known that most violent crime in this city happens in a very small part of the city. So if you are a member of the [very large] majority that lives in the safer parts of town, you really shouldn't worry too much about the "self-defense" aspect of gun ownership. Besides, there is no law against the owning of shotguns, which are much more useful home defense weapons anyway.

Also, concealed carry laws do not really help to reduce crime, since as we already have asserted, most gun crimes happen between two parties already involved in criminal acts (i.e. gang wars, drug shootings, etc...). So in those circumstances, both parties involved in the shooting we already armed, even without concealed carry permits. So this brings us to the relatively small amount of street muggings, where many people believe that having a concealed handgun will increase your odds of survival. I find fault with this logic, for a couple reasons:

1) Most muggers are not murderers, yet. They want your money, not your life. Give them your wallet, lose maybe a couple hundy, and walk away with your life. However, if you pull a weapon, they are more likely to lash out, escalating what would have been a bloodless altercation into a possible double homicide.

2) Having the pistol does not keep you from being mugged in the first place. I grew up in Shreveport, LA, a very gun friendly and crime riddled city. I had 3 separate friends mugged in gas station/liquor store parking lots, all 3 of them carrying pistols. All 3 had their pistols stolen from them during the hold-up.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:19 AM
 
2,131 posts, read 1,884,770 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
What people don't talk about much is the accepted psycholanalytic theory that folks who are very interested in concealed carry have latent feelings of inadequacy. They love having a potent weapon at their midsection.

A handgun is certainly an obvious phallic symbol for the maladjusted.

"For the man with a feeling of insecurity or inferiority, a pistol in his pocket is the "equalizer," the "difference." For the gang youth, it is a badge of bravery. Ernest Dichter, director of the Institute for Motivational Research at Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y., maintains that "we're just emerging from a brawn culture into a brain culture, and brains are not as dramatic." Guns compensate for that, Dichter adds, by serving as "a virility source. Clyde [of Bonnie and Clyde] is impotent, and he is using his gun to balance that." Indeed, Freudians point out that the gun is an obvious phallic symbol, conferring on its owner a feeling of potency and masculinity.* "


THE GUN UNDER FIRE - TIME

In my area they call it carrying your [member] in your pocket.
You're weird, dude.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:22 AM
 
2,131 posts, read 1,884,770 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy View Post
If I was to move to Chicago, I would bring my gun. No ifs, ands, butts about it. What the heck is criminal about protecting your property and yourself in the middle of the night????

Anybody know what the penalty is if you blow away a crack head without a registered gun?
I'll take you out for drinks and pay the bar tab, plus put you on my Christmas card list.
I would also issue you the Citizen's Medal of Civil Duty (if there were sucha thing).
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:27 AM
 
2,131 posts, read 1,884,770 times
Reputation: 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank0604 View Post
It's already pretty well known that most violent crime in this city happens in a very small part of the city. So if you are a member of the [very large] majority that lives in the safer parts of town, you really shouldn't worry too much about the "self-defense" aspect of gun ownership. Besides, there is no law against the owning of shotguns, which are much more useful home defense weapons anyway.

Also, concealed carry laws do not really help to reduce crime, since as we already have asserted, most gun crimes happen between two parties already involved in criminal acts (i.e. gang wars, drug shootings, etc...). So in those circumstances, both parties involved in the shooting we already armed, even without concealed carry permits. So this brings us to the relatively small amount of street muggings, where many people believe that having a concealed handgun will increase your odds of survival. I find fault with this logic, for a couple reasons:

1) Most muggers are not murderers, yet. They want your money, not your life. Give them your wallet, lose maybe a couple hundy, and walk away with your life. However, if you pull a weapon, they are more likely to lash out, escalating what would have been a bloodless altercation into a possible double homicide.

2) Having the pistol does not keep you from being mugged in the first place. I grew up in Shreveport, LA, a very gun friendly and crime riddled city. I had 3 separate friends mugged in gas station/liquor store parking lots, all 3 of them carrying pistols. All 3 had their pistols stolen from them during the hold-up.

To point No.1) **** on muggers. If they want my wallet or car and I have a weapon to protect myself (which I do in both my home and car), I'm going to make sure they get the bad end of that transaction.

To point No. 2) That may or may not have happened. I could make something up that says "I was sitting in my SUV at a light on 73rd and Stoney Island. A guy came up to my window and said "this is a jack, get the F out of the car and you won't get hurt" I said "OK, let me take off my seatbelt" but what I really did was pull my 9mm out of the center console and showed it to him. He ran off like a little girl.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:51 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine
9,258 posts, read 11,296,155 times
Reputation: 7390
I don't care if guns are unlikely to prevent a mugging or more likely to be used for suicide than crime prevention. For one thing such statistics don't apply to individuals and don't mean that I'm more likely to kill myself or less able to prevent myself being mugged.

I think that as an American it's my right to goi about armed. I'm sick and tired of my rights being held hostage because local government is unable to control, intimidate and punish social misfits and criminals.

As an aside I think this gun control nonsense has done a great deal to harm liberalism. REAL liberalism is based on economic issues and this namby-pampy, wimpy social liberalism (which is also safe liberalism because it doesn't threaten the wealthy and powerful; you'll never see the Pinkertons unleashed on gun control or Gay rights advocates----no big money involved) has driven many people with a stake in economic liberalism away from liberal politics.
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Chicago--Bucktown
425 posts, read 872,026 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenniel View Post
To point No.1) **** on muggers. If they want my wallet or car and I have a weapon to protect myself (which I do in both my home and car), I'm going to make sure they get the bad end of that transaction.

To point No. 2) That may or may not have happened. I could make something up that says "I was sitting in my SUV at a light on 73rd and Stoney Island. A guy came up to my window and said "this is a jack, get the F out of the car and you won't get hurt" I said "OK, let me take off my seatbelt" but what I really did was pull my 9mm out of the center console and showed it to him. He ran off like a little girl.

You can believe what I say or not, that's up to you. I also know people by reputation who have pulled guns on criminals during a home invasion, and scared the guy away, so that's to your point.

Back to what I said about muggers, though, I wasn't saying to be sympathetic towards them. In fact, I could care less if a criminal gets shot. My point was: Most muggers do not intend to use the weapon that they have. But if you pull out your weapon, then that changes the dynamic around quite a bit. The mugger will now be trying to defend himself, so if you are just a little slow, then you might end up dying for yor $200 bucks. Sure, you have a chance to get him, but are you fast enough? The average time for well trained shooters is 1.5 seconds from holster to trigger pull. If he's got a gun out and up on you, I bet he can pull that trigger faster than you can pull yours.

But, as Tom says, this isn't about that. It's about constitutional rights; Americans have the right to gun ownership as surely as we have the right to free speech. I'm just sick of gun-nuts coming up with all these crazy, macho, wild-west type of reasons for wanting to own guns. It's ok if you like guns, you don't have to hide behind misguided logic, the Constitution says you can and that's good enough. I also think it's interesting that conservatives are so crazy about the 2nd amendment, while completely disregarding infringements upon the 1st, 4th, 8th, and 14th amendments.

By the way, for the record, I also really like guns. I own 2 here, a .22 rifle that I got for Christmas when I was 7 years old, and a 12 gauge that I bought basically as soon as I turned 18. My dad back in Louisiana has a pretty extensive collection of pistols, which we take to the range everytime I go back to visit. He also got that new .410 revolver that I can't wait to get back and shoot.
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