WHAT IF: a Midwest without Chicago (Madison, Paxton: living in, restaurant, trains)

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by edsg25

When the Erie Canal opened, that New York-New Orleans interior waterway wouldn't work without Chicago as the link between the two water systems. And Chicago was also the most logical spot for a nation wide rail network that could effectively connect New York with San Francisco and, indeed, the whole Pacific Coast with the northeast corridor.

And the influx of New Englanders and New Yorkers to Illinois after the Erie Canal opened insured that Illinois would be a civilized state rather than a southern one. Note that the present backwardness of Indiana was to a great degree caused by Northeasterners bypassing it to go to Illinois, Wisconsin and Iowa thus allowing the state to be settled more by southerners.

And it was the new Englanders and New Yorkers who had the resolution and work ethic to tackle the prarie, most southerners being content to stay south of the Shelbyville Moraine.

[Tex?Il?]

I may have mentioned this before.

But personally I have an alterior motive for suggesting Chicago has more in common with other midwestern cities.

I'm mostly an outdoor enthusiast, and kind of care less about diversity of the arts, theater, restaurants, etc.

Wisconsin, Michigan, and Missouri all have far more forests, lakes, rivers, coastline (WI and MI) than Illinois' expanses of largely cornfields (except for the Shawnee Hills (extension of the Ozarks really), the Driftless area). And ever since I went to school in northern Michigan I always felt self-conscious being from the Chicago suburbs. So, I always tried to point out that I had more in common with the people in the areas in which I enjoyed (hiking, fishing, etc.) so to distance myself from anything that was "fib" or "fip", I drove the speed limit and pointed out that Illinois is still largely rural, just less interesting landscape, and parts of Chicago have in common with parts of Milwaukee, etc.

So, I confess I have an alterior motive.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

And the influx of New Englanders and New Yorkers to Illinois after the Erie Canal opened insured that Illinois would be a civilized state rather than a southern one. Note that the present backwardness of Indiana was to a great degree caused by Northeasterners bypassing it to go to Illinois, Wisconsin and Iowa thus allowing the state to be settled more by southerners.

And it was the new Englanders and New Yorkers who had the resolution and work ethic to tackle the prarie, most southerners being content to stay south of the Shelbyville Moraine.

good point. but to a degree, i'd say that Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois really share a lot. The earliest migration followed the Ohio River westward and was rooted in places like Virginia. The southern regions of each state have a border state feel very much the border state they all front across the Ohio: Kentucky.

Northern parts of Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois were more the product of that early New England and New York wave westward that came after the southern one. But they are even more the product of the vast wave of European immigration between the Civil War and WWI, fueled by the Great Lakes region's growing industrial strength.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

I may have mentioned this before.

But personally I have an alterior motive for suggesting Chicago has more in common with other midwestern cities.

I'm mostly an outdoor enthusiast, and kind of care less about diversity of the arts, theater, restaurants, etc.

Wisconsin, Michigan, and Missouri all have far more forests, lakes, rivers, coastline (WI and MI) than Illinois' expanses of largely cornfields (except for the Shawnee Hills (extension of the Ozarks really), the Driftless area). And ever since I went to school in northern Michigan I always felt self-conscious being from the Chicago suburbs. So, I always tried to point out that I had more in common with the people in the areas in which I enjoyed (hiking, fishing, etc.) so to distance myself from anything that was "fib" or "fip", I drove the speed limit and pointed out that Illinois is still largely rural, just less interesting landscape, and parts of Chicago have in common with parts of Milwaukee, etc.

So, I confess I have an alterior motive.

Tex, it would be my assessment that people in the Chicago area relate far more to Wisconsin than they do to downstate IL. I'd say our strongest attachment to downstate is to what (forgive me, downstaters, for this one) I would call a Chicago off-shoot 160 miles to the south: Champaign Urbana. It would be hard not to argue that the Illini nation is well more than 50% dominated by Chicagoland and is the focal point of any downstate interest we have. We may bleed orange and blue but we love the pure green of Wisconsin's forests and the blue of its lakes.

[LSDetroit]

I think the world and Country would be better off without Chicago.

[nJohn]

Originally Posted by LSDetroit

I think the world and Country would be better off without Chicago.

That coming from a person from Detroit I presume? I can't take you seriously.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by LSDetroit

I think the world and Country would be better off without Chicago.

And better off without you.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by LSDetroit

I think the world and Country would be better off without Chicago.

This is coming from someone who lives in the biggest cesspool in the nation.

[reppin_the_847]

I think that Chicago & the Midwestern region need to get on the same page, and get real about high-speed affordable, point to point, city to city high speed rail options. Some of you may knock Detroit, but a fast train between Detroit & Chicago would be heavily traveled (especially from folks with Michigan roots), that are now based out of Chicago for work or school reasons. The Midwest as a whole can reinvent itself, and revitalize the rust belt region by evolving into the information age.

[Paxtonian]

Can one imagine the Midwest without the intricate (and intrinsic) corruption rampant in Chicago?
I've been educating a New Yorker in the ways of doing things the Chicago way, he is in a complete state of shock- repeating time after time "You've got to be kidding!"