The "Jefferson Tap Three" are acquitted. (Chicago, Normal: city hall, crimes)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

Oh shut up.

Yeah well, I wish that he was just doing his "inflammatory jagmuppet" schtick this time. But he's not, and unfortunately he happens to be right. Incidents like this make it more difficult to defend this town against the sanctimonious twaddle of East Coast flapjaws. And we'll keep seeing incidents like this until the city understands that professionalism matters when it comes to your police force.

[dementor]

Originally Posted by Drover

Yeah well, I wish that he was just doing his "inflammatory jagmuppet" schtick this time. But he's not, and unfortunately he happens to be right. Incidents like this make it more difficult to defend this town against the sanctimonious twaddle of East Coast flapjaws. And we'll keep seeing incidents like this until the city understands that professionalism matters when it comes to your police force.

I do not care that much anymore to post "inflammatory jagmuppet schtick" (schtick - where did you learn that, sounds really familiar . I am leaving this "great city" within days so I have no reason to be p...e anymore. It is soon going to be someone else's problem
Yup, Chicago PD and its perfromance is definetely not a bragging point and I am not only talking about crime stats here. From the moment I got here I could not believe seeing (some) Chicago PD officers "on the job" in less than full standard uniform, no head gear, with two day beards and tattoos. Who let them out of the station house? Where was their sergeant???? Then the the "teenage years old cop-impersonator" incident proved very well that there is a total lack of internal discipline, no roll calls, no proper reporting etc. etc. I could not believe the average age of CPD officers, many of them looking like they should be attending an AARP meeting instead of "fighting the crime". I could not believe marked squad cars parked at private driveways instead of being used by the next shift. These of course are details but nevertheless tell you a lot about what is going on in the department and then I met some current and former Chicago cops and realized that most of them are disillusioned and bitter about their jobs, which seems to be a very long tradition here in Chicago.

Big city police departments are very different from suburban ones as the police work is very different itself. In the big city there should be much more focus on "community policing" - good police work does not start when the incident occurs but long long time before. Good police work is about prevention. It's not as much of a Lone Ranger work as day-to- day involvement with the community. Constant presence and involvement in community affairs really pays off in the long run. But for this CPD has to get a new brand of cops: disciplined, dedicated, well paid and trained. In the land "far, far away" precinct commanders are rated on crime stats in the area they are responsible for: you don't make your numbers and you are out. You got a year. It's all about perfromance, it is not a country club or pre-school. "Doing your best" is not enough when kids are being shot almost every day.

IMHO, to turn the city around, Chicago needs its own "Bratton": a procedure oriented disciplinarian but of course first it needs politicians who understand that the city will never be appealing as long as crime stats look bad. But that's totally another story

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

The fact that we live in a city where it's entirely feasible that the police and judge in this instance are both corrupt is a sad testament.

Corruption ... in Chicago? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!

Seriously, it has to suck to live in a place where nothing is on the level.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by dementor

I do not care that much anymore to post "inflammatory jagmuppet schtick" (schtick - where did you learn that, sounds really familiar . I am leaving this "great city" within days so I have no reason to be p...e anymore. It is soon going to be someone else's problem
Yup, Chicago PD and its perfromance is definetely not a bragging point and I am not only talking about crime stats here. From the moment I got here I could not believe seeing (some) Chicago PD officers "on the job" in less than full standard uniform, no head gear, with two day beards and tattoos. Who let them out of the station house? Where was their sergeant???? Then the the "teenage years old cop-impersonator" incident proved very well that there is a total lack of internal discipline, no roll calls, no proper reporting etc. etc. I could not believe the average age of CPD officers, many of them looking like they should be attending an AARP meeting instead of "fighting the crime". I could not believe marked squad cars parked at private driveways instead of being used by the next shift. These of course are details but nevertheless tell you a lot about what is going on in the department and then I met some current and former Chicago cops and realized that most of them are disillusioned and bitter about their jobs, which seems to be a very long tradition here in Chicago.

Big city police departments are very different from suburban ones as the police work is very different itself. In the big city there should be much more focus on "community policing" - good police work does not start when the incident occurs but long long time before. Good police work is about prevention. It's not as much of a Lone Ranger work as day-to- day involvement with the community. Constant presence and involvement in community affairs really pays off in the long run. But for this CPD has to get a new brand of cops: disciplined, dedicated, well paid and trained. In the land "far, far away" precinct commanders are rated on crime stats in the area they are responsible for: you don't make your numbers and you are out. You got a year. It's all about perfromance, it is not a country club or pre-school. "Doing your best" is not enough when kids are being shot almost every day.

IMHO, to turn the city around, Chicago needs its own "Bratton": a procedure oriented disciplinarian but of course first it needs politicians who understand that the city will never be appealing as long as crime stats look bad. But that's totally another story

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree 100%.

We do have a large community policing program (CAPS), but it's largely ineffective when the populace doesn't trust the police any more than they trust the criminals. In Uptown there is a strong belief among the poor black residents of the neighborhood that CAPS is an instrument of "gentrifier colonialism", and that it only exists to help the yuppies in the neighborhood harass the poorer residents. I know this sounds crazy to a reasonable person, but our police force has earned its bad reputation--and is now under a blanket of suspicion that opens it up to whatever criticism people can dream up--true or not.

[dementor]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree 100%.

We do have a large community policing program (CAPS), but it's largely ineffective when the populace doesn't trust the police any more than they trust the criminals. In Uptown there is a strong belief among the poor black residents of the neighborhood that CAPS is an instrument of "gentrifier colonialism", and that it only exists to help the yuppies in the neighborhood harass the poorer residents. I know this sounds crazy to a reasonable person, but our police force has earned its bad reputation--and is now under a blanket of suspicion that opens it up to whatever criticism people can dream up--true or not.

There are plenty of things about Chicago that only look good on paper just like CAPS. Every police department in the world relies on cooperation of citizens. There is no work around and working in a hostile environment is not only frustrating but also inefective. CPD has to work hard to make people forget about the legacy of torture, racism and brutality. To do that they have to send a strong signal to communities by punishing officers who got involved in incidents like this bar brawl and recruit more officers out of the troubled communities and then send them back to police them. Finaly a competent and truly independent police review board is long overdue. One of my biggest beefs with Chicago is lack of follow up and half assed efforts. Appointing Weiss was in my opinion one of them. CPD needs an experienced outsider with a lot of support from local politicains. Just like Patrick Fitzgerald was able to shake up Chicago's political scene a commisioner coming from another area of the country may be able to shake up and clean up CPD.

Unfortunately to a lot of people in Chicago it is 'someone else's problem'
or they will argue that "it is not that bad". All is great until you are one of the directly affected, either by crime or by incompetent CPD. It's hard to say what it worse.

[LakeShoreSoxGo]

How is this possible. How can a judge do something like this with no back lash. I thought unions were strong, but wow.

[Spire]

Originally Posted by dementor

There are plenty of things about Chicago that only look good on paper just like CAPS. Every police department in the world relies on cooperation of citizens. There is no work around and working in a hostile environment is not only frustrating but also inefective. CPD has to work hard to make people forget about the legacy of torture, racism and brutality. To do that they have to send a strong signal to communities by punishing officers who got involved in incidents like this bar brawl and recruit more officers out of the troubled communities and then send them back to police them. Finaly a competent and truly independent police review board is long overdue. One of my biggest beefs with Chicago is lack of follow up and half assed efforts. Appointing Weiss was in my opinion one of them. CPD needs an experienced outsider with a lot of support from local politicains. Just like Patrick Fitzgerald was able to shake up Chicago's political scene a commisioner coming from another area of the country may be able to shake up and clean up CPD.

Unfortunately to a lot of people in Chicago it is 'someone else's problem'
or they will argue that "it is not that bad". All is great until you are one of the directly affected, either by crime or by incompetent CPD. It's hard to say what it worse.

You are the most ignorant person I've ever had a conversation with. Nearly everywhere people take the approach "its not my problem". Look back on U.S history. For hundreds of years, we killed Native Americans, and had slaves. Nearly everyone took the approach, its not my problem. Very few people feel the need to do anything as long as its not in their backyard. I guess its human nature.

Look back on more recent history, the Holocaust. My grandmother was in Nazi Germany and she said very few people of "Aryan" decent felt the need to do anything which is completely true. It's better you than me is the saying. I'm sure people in NYC look the other way on a lot of things, and I'm positive the same holds true for L.A. You cant bash Chicago for one thing if you aren't going to hold NYC to the same standards.

Ignorance is bliss I guess, because you seem like a pretty happy guy, minus the whole feeling the need to bash Chicago on every little detail. It's great that you like NYC and I really don't care that you don't like Chicago. It's just the bashing is getting so old.

Can you not think of anything better to do than sit here and bash a city? What is any of this going to mean in the long run? No matter how much you bash Chicago, at the end of the day, its still a functioning AMAZING city. Chicago being a great city doesn't take away from NYC in anyway. I don't know why you feel that it does so much.

[dementor]

Originally Posted by Spire

You are the most ignorant person I've ever had a conversation with. Ignorance is bliss I guess, because you seem like a pretty happy guy, minus the whole feeling the need to bash Chicago on every little detail. It's great that you like NYC and I really don't care that you don't like Chicago. It's just the bashing is getting so old.
.

Primo. We never had a convesation.
Secundo. I am not happy since I have to be in Chicago. I will be much happier once I leave. That's pretty soon.
Tertio. I am not bashing Chicago. I am simply posting general comments based on my own observations. Yes, I bring up New York a lot but only as a point of reference as many issues still plaguing Chicago has already been resolved there.

[Lookout Kid]

Well, New York has a very short history of being a place where the police department is professional and trustworthy. And suspicion still runs deep because of plunger assaults and what not from the Giuliani era. But the Giulani-style crackdowns were a necessary evil that has brought New York to where it is now (sans plunger sodomy). In the late 1980s, New York was a very different place.

Los Angeles has had some of the worst police/citizen relations of any urban area in the country, but they seem to be turning a corner now. Perhaps Chicago can do the same, but it won't happen until the CPD reigns in all of this frat boy nonsense. I'm starting to think that we need to start hiring outside of the inbred gene pool of cop families that we've got now. Not that they are literally inbred, but there is a "cop culture" in this city that needs to be anihilated--and it goes back through neighborhoods for generations.

[Spire]

Originally Posted by dementor

Primo. We never had a convesation.
Secundo. I am not happy since I have to be in Chicago. I will be much happier once I leave. That's pretty soon.
Tertio. I am not bashing Chicago. I am simply posting general comments based on my own observations. Yes, I bring up New York a lot but only as a point of reference as many issues still plaguing Chicago has already been resolved there.

Erste, we are having a conversation right now
Unterstutzen, if you hate Chicago so much leave. You'll never really leave Chicago because you'll be patrolling these threads for every possible topic relating to Chicago.
Dritte, you can call it whatever you want, but you are bashing. Your comments are the farthest thing from general. You try to include unimportant details to make your argument seem stronger. The funny thing is they never make sense. You bring up NYC all the time. There is no point of reference for Chicago and NYC. The only reason they get compared is because they are seen as America's two urban cities. Other than that, they couldn't be any different. They each have things that appeal to different people.

Tons of issues plauge NYC. I saw on the news Thursday that Chicago's unemployment rate will be back to its precrash statisitcs by 2012, while NYC's won't be back until 2014. I'm not going to focus on anything because I don't really care what's wrong with NYC. You on the other hand cant stop bashing Chicago.

Goodbye.