What is "midwestern mentality"??? (Chicago, Standard: real estate, neighborhood, school)

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Teclo

I would agree with this. Chicago, together with Cleveland, is either at the top or near the top when it comes to segregation. Roughly 90% of people would have to move in the city to cause integration. There are only several truly integrated neighborhoods that I can think of in Chicago: Hyde Park-Kenwood, Uptown/Edgewater, Rogers Park, Albany Park, arguably Beverly and Morgan Park. Chicagoans can have a severely parochial, hyper-local attitude that, as the cr... said, is conducive to neighborhood deterioration. They also tend to not challenge their preconceptions about place particularly much.

New York City is more segregated than Chicago by some calculations. So how does that fit into your ideas about Chicagoans?

I'm not defending Chicago's segregation, but just pointing out that the phenomenon is not unique to Chicago at all. And many of the people doing the finger-pointing live in cities that are just as segregated.

[linicx]

One of the things I always loved about Chicago is the diverse culture and religious attitudes that is sadly lacking in so many other cities. And I love the ethnic neighborhoods where I can find a small restaurant that serves authentic foods.

Chicago may have its problems, but there is an awful lot here to like. All anyone has to do is look for the positive. It is in plain sight.

[Drover]

Sorry, I can't resist... I tried but I can't...

[Avengerfire]

Remember the 3rd of June!

[Teranell]

Originally Posted by linicx

One of the things I always loved about Chicago is the diverse culture and religious attitudes that is sadly lacking in so many other cities. And I love the ethnic neighborhoods where I can find a small restaurant that serves authentic foods.

Chicago may have its problems, but there is an awful lot here to like. All anyone has to do is look for the positive. It is in plain sight.

I do agree Chicago has been one of the worst in terms of planned segregation. All the housing projects built back in the 50s far from places to shop for food and essentials, and far from the possibility of intersecting with OTHER poor people or white people was one of the most blatently racist policies of the century. One of them in St. Louis, if you'll remember, had to be demolished soon after several years of an astounding number of crimes and murders were committed in it. Much of the problem, in the case of that building, was the very negative effect the building's design had on the people who had no choice but to live there.

Now, it seems to me, a lot of our problems in Chicago when it comes to segregation have just as much to do with class (income/ property taxes) as they do with out-and-out racist policy being enacted or being something most residents want -- though the class disparity is of course driven by the racial thing too, I guess.

I was recently going to move to the pacific northwest, where I find the climate much more preferable to Chicago's in the winter and summer -- but just the thought of the lack of diversity up there is just a bit more than I can really abide. Just getting off the plane in Seattle and walking to the baggage claim in the airport, I was struck with the fact that all I happened to see were white people. Asians are the only prominent racial minority in the northwest.

Still, working in Chicago for many years downtown, it would get to me some days that, after spending eight hours or so with people of all colors and backgrounds, we all got in busses or on el-trains headed for pretty much opposite sides of town. You have to push the effort a bit farther, if you can, and get involved in community activities that are going to draw people together based on things other than cultural background. When you want to start a bookgroup, or join one, see if there aren't books or interests that are broader than the average is for you. Encourage minorities in your community to take active roles in projects like teaching a class, or holding a cooking workshop, or giving a talk or lecture. As a friend of mine who happens not to be white says, "White guilt never did anyone any good." There's nothing wrong with telling people you feel representatives of all cultural backgrounds are needed in the community.

Something else my European and Latin American internet friends have been reminding me of lately: in the U.S., we've been discouraged, in every conceivable way -- including the planning and construction of our cities and towns -- from having public places we can congregate and interact. It's just not seen much to -- there are few spaces provided here as there are elsewhere in the world. In the loop, you have the park on Chicago Avenue just across the street from Water Tower Place, and then sometimes you see people around Buckingham Fountain for a little while. But in Grant park, you either have to bring something to sit on the ground with, or wait for there to be seats set up, or vie for the very few sitting places in the park itself. It's also not easy to find places to sit along the lakeside. They've really made sure even medium sized groups of people are discouraged from hanging out around the loop. Maybe only one of many reasons is, public congregation would make it apparent how many homeless people there are in American cities, unlike in Europe or Latin America.

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by Teranell

I do agree Chicago has been one of the worst in terms of planned segregation. All the housing projects built back in the 50s far from places to shop for food and essentials, and far from the possibility of intersecting with OTHER poor people or white people was one of the most blatently racist policies of the century. One of them in St. Louis, if you'll remember, had to be demolished soon after several years of an astounding number of crimes and murders were committed in it. Much of the problem, in the case of that building, was the very negative effect the building's design had on the people who had no choice but to live there.

That's true of NYC. It isn't true of Chicago. How many public housing projects were literally down the street from Gold Coast?

And still are?

Furthermore, I've studied the issue at hand-- land zoning-- and at the time I really believe that what the suburban morons in charge of government at the time thought was that the best way to serve poor black people was to push them together.

I'm not saying this was morally right, useful, that it achieved its purpose or was beneficial in any way. I just believe that this was really and truly seen as the solution to poor people and crime. And to be as fair as these people deserve, it's not like they had anything else to look at it. This was the first time in American history that this sort of thing had ever happened.

Now, it seems to me, a lot of our problems in Chicago when it comes to segregation have just as much to do with class (income/ property taxes) as they do with out-and-out racist policy being enacted or being something most residents want -- though the class disparity is of course driven by the racial thing too, I guess.

Eh, I don't buy class disparity issues. This isn't Europe, and you don't have to rely on a family name to get somewhere. It's about as equal as human beings anywhere ever are. We do have income disparity, but I'd argue against that being an entirely bad situation.

Still, working in Chicago for many years downtown, it would get to me some days that, after spending eight hours or so with people of all colors and backgrounds, we all got in busses or on el-trains headed for pretty much opposite sides of town. You have to push the effort a bit farther, if you can, and get involved in community activities that are going to draw people together based on things other than cultural background. When you want to start a bookgroup, or join one, see if there aren't books or interests that are broader than the average is for you. Encourage minorities in your community to take active roles in projects like teaching a class, or holding a cooking workshop, or giving a talk or lecture.

Eh. If you want to get involved, get involved. We're all just people, and I'm not going out of my way to make anyone feel special, involved or "included".

Something else my European and Latin American internet friends have been reminding me of lately: in the U.S., we've been discouraged, in every conceivable way -- including the planning and construction of our cities and towns -- from having public places we can congregate and interact. It's just not seen much to -- there are few spaces provided here as there are elsewhere in the world. In the loop, you have the park on Chicago Avenue just across the street from Water Tower Place, and then sometimes you see people around Buckingham Fountain for a little while. But in Grant park, you either have to bring something to sit on the ground with, or wait for there to be seats set up, or vie for the very few sitting places in the park itself. It's also not easy to find places to sit along the lakeside. They've really made sure even medium sized groups of people are discouraged from hanging out around the loop. Maybe only one of many reasons is, public congregation would make it apparent how many homeless people there are in American cities, unlike in Europe or Latin America.

I actually think this is very true, although I don't believe it's discouragement. We as Americans simply have a culture of privacy.

[ejay]

"I was recently going to move to the pacific northwest, where I find the climate much more preferable to Chicago's in the winter and summer -- but just the thought of the lack of diversity up there is just a bit more than I can really abide. Just getting off the plane in Seattle and walking to the baggage claim in the airport, I was struck with the fact that all I happened to see were white people. Asians are the only prominent racial minority in the northwest."

Something about this statement screams clarification.

[chicagojoe23]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Chicagoans are the exception to it, I'll tell you that much. it refers more to upstanding Swedish farmer types in Minnesota, people not looking for fast times or glitz, straight-laced, common-sense folks, that kinda thing.

Chicagoans absolutely have a midwestern mentality. It's not degrading yourself to admit that. Alot of small minded closet racism and segregation still thrives in this city.
Jeans are considered a fashion statement by most folks around here. Not that theres' anything wrong with being comfortable. I love my Chicago roots, but you can safely say most people here are not into "glitz" or "fast times" They would rather sit at home with their Budweiser, or Blue Moon if they are feelin' "class-ay"
I speak of the general population of course. Let's not pretend Chicago is teeming with citizens of a high class, hoity-toity mentality. Look to some northern suburbs for that.

[LookinForMayberry]

I'm disappointed that you are directing your question exclusively to Chicago. The Midwest covers much more area than that one town, and I don't think they speak for the others.

Still, I have heard that journalists are not always concerned about the neutrality of their reporting..... maybe it's true.

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by chicagojoe23

Chicagoans absolutely have a midwestern mentality. It's not degrading yourself to admit that. Alot of small minded closet racism and segregation still thrives in this city.
Jeans are considered a fashion statement by most folks around here. Not that theres' anything wrong with being comfortable. I love my Chicago roots, but you can safely say most people here are not into "glitz" or "fast times" They would rather sit at home with their Budweiser, or Blue Moon if they are feelin' "class-ay"
I speak of the general population of course. Let's not pretend Chicago is teeming with citizens of a high class, hoity-toity mentality. Look to some northern suburbs for that.

The underlying assumption most Chicagoans dislike in this line of reasoning is that it's different elsewhere... and it's not. I've lived in Manhattan, Paris and most recently, Sao Paulo. People are people and they dress the same everywhere.

There is a very specific type of woman found almost exclusively in Manhattan who dresses like something you'd see in Sex and the City. The big hair, body glitter, a week's worth of makeup and 4 inch stilettos. And all I can say to that is, I've seen it in person and woman to woman... They look like cheap whores.

The rest of the nation is caught up in name brands and labels, and that's a coast to coast thing. "They're Manolos/Jimmy Choo's/Vuitton!" No, honey, those are stripper pumps and ghetto handbags.

Whether it's NYC or Oklahoma City, people dress the same, and that's: "I'm a hipster douchebag!" or "I love Banana Republic!" Maybe in the 40's and 50's, this discussion would have been relevant. All I can say is, if you think midwesterners are the only Americans with provincial, ass-backwards mindsets you've clearly never spoken with someone from the boroughs of NYC.