what parts of chicago is considered a white, asian or hispanic ghetto? (Schaumburg: transfer, safe neighborhood)

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426

They must don't have affiliation with neither Folks or People Nations.

it's much more complicated than that, gangs are more fluid, more opportunistic, and are more about business realities.

order the Chicago Crime Commission's Chicago Gang Book if you'd like to get up to date:

https://www.chicagocrimecommission.o...ent.aspx?id=14

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

show me something - or are you saying my interpretation of the Chicago Encyclopedia articles is wrong? or are you saying that my standard of needing to be a majority population for it be considered an ethnic neighborhood is wrong?...

Mysteriously the numbers for 1970 and 1980 are missing for the Lincoln Park "community area."

Also, the Lincoln Park "community area" includes many neighborhoods other than the Lincoln Park neighborhoods.

Lincoln Park
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Furthermore:

Puerto Ricans

"These early migrants lived in various neighborhoods, including Woodlawn, the Near North Side, Lake View, Lincoln Park, Uptown, West Garfield Park, East Garfield Park, and the Near West Side. By the 1960s most Chicago Puerto Ricans were concentrated in Lincoln Park, West Town, and Humboldt Park and shared these neighborhoods with Mexican and Polish immigrants as well as African Americans."

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohisto...ages/1027.html

[Chi-town Native]

you're proving my point. saying they were sharing the neighborhood is all I'm trying to say, and "the SW corner of LP" speaks for itself. of course, that assessment is absolutely missing the germans, irish, jews and italians in LP - I knew, and know, a ton of 'em.

do you really want to debate the legitimacy of community areas vs neighborhoods? I think it's an interesting topic personally, but it really deserves it's own thread.

demographic statistical tracking/analysis over time is the background/point of the community areas, some are clearly based on more history than others (early townships like Lake View IMO aren't debatable), but Lincoln Park is not usually one people quibble with these days, although I'd certainly agree that 30 years ago the western parts were quite different than the eastern.

if you want to get nuanced, the history of the wards is much more revealing to a true Chicagoan for my money, that's where you see the politics really take shape.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

you're proving my point. saying they were sharing the neighborhood is all I'm trying to say, and "the SW corner of LP" speaks for itself. -------------------------
----------------------of course, that assessment is absolutely missing the germans, irish, jews and italians in LP - I knew, and know, a ton of 'em....

1) I never said Lincoln Park was like 90% Puerto Rican. Lets say it was 20-30% PR for 20 years and 10-20% black. If most of those people were low income (which they were) the odds are the most of the crime perps were coming from those groups (which they were.)

The difference crimewise between a neighborhood which was 90% white in the 60's-80's and one that was 50% or less is huge.

2) The assessment on that particular section that I cited from the Encyclopedia of Chicago of course would leave out "germans, irish, jews and italians in LP" the section and page I cited was about Puerto Ricans in Chicago.
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Don't forget my first post on the subject here:

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

A good portion of the Lincoln Park "community area" was pretty shady from the late 50's to late 80's...

The neighborhood itself never got too bad though, but many of the other neighborhoods that are in the Lincoln Park "community area" did.

However,I do recall as a kid women getting raped and people getting robbed,stabbed,shot, or murdered in the park itself on a regular basis.

[edsg25]

Here's something many of you were probably unaware:

at the turn of the 20th century, Chicago was the third largest Jewish city in the world behind NYC and Warsaw at a time when Chicago was about 10% Jewish.

Large Jewish neighborhoods thrieved on all three sides of the city. The West to begin with around Maxwell Street initially, certainly Kenwood, Hyde Park, and South Shore on the south side and then the huge and almost solidly Jewish neighborhoods around Douglas Park and other parts of the West Side. And the north side lakefront on streets like LSD and Sheridan were loaded with Jewish high rise dwellers.

Of course, in more modern times, Jews were the leading ethnic group throughout the far north side in places like RP, WRP, Albany Pk, Peterson Pk, etc. and dominated at various times high schools like Senn, Sullivan, Mather, Von, and Roosevelt.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

1) I never said Lincoln Park was like 90% Puerto Rican. Lets say it was 20-30% PR for 20 years and 10-20% black.

that sounds closer to the truth, although I'd bet it's still high on the PR side.

really, I'm not looking to argue, I don't really have a dog in this fight - but, I do hear often from Puerto Rican folks in my neighborhood who seem to still harbor a grudge that they got pushed out of LP.

I understand it (hell, I'm a bit annoyed about my old neighborhood more or less being wiped off the map), but while true to a degree, it's not true in the sense some of them claim, ie, Puerto Ricans specifically (it being "their" neighborhood") being targeted and pushed out due to race.

Govt agencies did embark in urban renewal (ie, the creation of Oz Park, an old guitar teacher of mine went to LP High when it was still Waller and remembers when the houses came down on Webster, the street for the school being closed, etc.), but ALL the lower/fixed income folks felt that pain - tons of factory worker white folks left as the industries were steadily converted to residential & their jobs disappeared. the railroad tracks along Lakewood between Fullerton & Diversey are pretty much all that's left of what was once a thriving industrial zone. The proof is simple - LP is rich, the poor and lower middle class people are bye-bye.

I think in Chicago we focus too much on race, and should see the bigger issue of economics and class, which unite a lot of us, if not most of us. Under our good Mayor for example, blue collar/lower middle class neighborhoods of all stripes were assaulted with borderline-legal TIF schemes and the like, and this has been a massive factor in tension on the street as you've got these huge populations getting uprooted and moving constantly - teens specifically are far more likely to have problems/join gangs if they lose their support networks and get dropped into a hostile environment.

check out this link (from a link Irishtom posted):

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/maps/chbkbhae.gif

ah, if only we had this for the 40s through 80s, that would settle this on the spot.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by edsg25

Here's something many of you were probably unaware:

at the turn of the 20th century, Chicago was the third largest Jewish city in the world behind NYC and Warsaw at a time when Chicago was about 10% Jewish.

Large Jewish neighborhoods thrieved on all three sides of the city. The West to begin with around Maxwell Street initially, certainly Kenwood, Hyde Park, and South Shore on the south side and then the huge and almost solidly Jewish neighborhoods around Douglas Park and other parts of the West Side. And the north side lakefront on streets like LSD and Sheridan were loaded with Jewish high rise dwellers.

Of course, in more modern times, Jews were the leading ethnic group throughout the far north side in places like RP, WRP, Albany Pk, Peterson Pk, etc. and dominated at various times high schools like Senn, Sullivan, Mather, Von, and Roosevelt.

Thanks, very cool info - I've always heard the stats about how we have the second largest number of Poles after Warsaw, but not the Jewish one specifically.

I think this map includes a ton of Jewish people:

Russians, 1920

as they differentiate by birthplace, not religion/culture.

there's a phenomenal book UC put out a few years back that has all these maps & more, and statistical analysis of the demographic changes in the City, I'll dig up the title when I can - it's pretty much the Bible as far as I'm concerned, you can't argue with the hard stats.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

show me something - or are you saying my interpretation of the Chicago Encyclopedia articles is wrong?...

...And being in the "SW corner of LP" ...

Here is some proof for you I took today. These pics are not from the SW corner of LP either.

They are from the SE corner of Diversey and Wilton.

[Chi-town Native]

that's good, I had forgotten all about that place - I'll definitely give you that one, even though the dates don't quite work for the argument. that tells me that by 1973 the Puerto Ricans were quickly moving north, in numbers great enough to support the church - you're across the street from lake view right there. the mural is an attempt to preserve the history (and for good reason), but I'm not in denial puerto ricans were a presence, I grew up with plenty, they're normal folks as far as I'm concerned, but their experience in LP seems to have been a transitory one, not where they established roots - they're gone, but for a wee handful. LP at it's most Puerto Rican could not even remotely be compared to Humboldt Park, which isn't exactly 100% Puerto Rican, but is loaded with culture.

again, my specific point is that calling LP a "puerto Rican neighborhood" is a generalization not supported by facts.

you'll actually need numbers to make that case to my satisfaction. not that you should care, but I'm a history man myself, I'm not arguing because I'm bored, but because distorting truth bugs me, and I've seen so many distortions of LP and LV in my life it's now a bit of an obsession (depending who you're talking to, both were either crime-ridden ghettos or wonderful examples of a socialist workers' paradise)

or, you can clarify/change your argument parameters so that you're making the case that a neighborhood which is (by your estimation) 20 - 30% of one group can accurately be called that group's neighborhood. fine by me either way.

[jorsor00]

As for the South Side you have: Hispanic Ghetto- Back of the Yards (47th and Ashland area), White Ghetto-Canaryville (Halsted and 47th st area) and McKinley Park (35th and Damen) and for your Asian ghetto-McKinley Park is getting them (35th and Damen area)