englewood (Chicago, Winchester, Augusta: middle-class, 2009, crime)

[movintochi966]

I've never seen it disputed here that englewood is a bad neighborhood. However someone who owns property there was recently telling me its not so bad. The last few news clips I've seen out of there in the past 2 weeks included:

9 yo girl shot in head
Police officer shot in head
2 police attacked by man with chainsaw
4 shot over the weekend
Police shot at today or yesterday

Is this person crazy or am I missing something

[surlycue]

Yeah, that person is crazy. There are a few blocks that are 90%+ home owners that keep a close eye on things so on the blotter you will see patches of relative safety amid the ****storm but it certainly isn't a place for outsiders or even urban pioneers to put in stakes.

Mikonis? I think is his user name lives there with his family (unless he's a troll) and reports back all sorts of expected horror stories.

[ChiMack]

well if you grew up with something like this you might be used to it, i lived in humboldt park and belmont and craign and i grew up with bangers and heard gunshots plenty of times and had people i knew get killed and im used to it and for me a place like humboldt etc might not be bad..for some one it might be

[surlycue]

Originally Posted by ChiMack

well if you grew up with something like this you might be used to it, i lived in humboldt park and belmont and craign and i grew up with bangers and heard gunshots plenty of times and had people i knew get killed and im used to it and for me a place like humboldt etc might not be bad..for some one it might be

Of course everyone has a different tolerance level. I would live in Humboldt Park (East of Central Park and North of Augusta) but I don't think too many people would embrace living in Garfield Park, Englewood, Fuller Park, Grand Crossing, etc with open arms. There's a big difference between living in fringe communities with gang violence and living in warzone neighborhoods. Especially considering that more than a few of the casualties in Englewood have been people killed by stray bullets. That isn't one of those situations where if you're minding your own business you will be ok.

[ajolotl]

What you are missing is that the neighborhood isn't a homogenous slab. In much the same way my relatives from afar quote the Chicago overall crime stats to prove to me it isn't safe. When I explain that it varies from neighborhood to neighborhood they still seem skeptical.

I'm sure no part of englewood is disneyland but if you live on a good block and haven't seen any crime directly it probably doesn't feel too bad. There are perfectly tidy and normal looking blocks there. Granted I don't spend the night ever but I can imagine that are pockets of overall peace and relative safety.

[Drover]

"Not so bad" is one of those open-ended assessments that requires a reference point. Compared to a "baseline" Chicago neighborhood like, say, Belmont-Cragin or Hermosa, it's bad. Compared to an upper-middle-class to upper-class neighborhood like Sauganash, it really sucks. Compared to what Englewood was like in the early 1990s, the Englewood of 2009 is Paradise. But it's still one of the worst neighborhoods in the city in terms of crime, blight, urban decay, disinvestment, engrained generational poverty and welfare dependency, et cetera.

Very few people who have better options would choose to live in Englewood. There are basically three types of residents who live there: The 70% who simply don't have a better option within their means, the 10% who could leave if they wanted to but are attached to or don't want to give up on the neighborhood where they grew up, and the 20% who are running the place into the ground and making life miserable for the other 80%.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

What you are missing is that the neighborhood isn't a homogenous slab. In much the same way my relatives from afar quote the Chicago overall crime stats to prove to me it isn't safe. When I explain that it varies from neighborhood to neighborhood they still seem skeptical.

I'm sure no part of englewood is disneyland but if you live on a good block and haven't seen any crime directly it probably doesn't feel too bad. There are perfectly tidy and normal looking blocks there. Granted I don't spend the night ever but I can imagine that are pockets of overall peace and relative safety.

But if you look at a crime map of Englewood, you'll find that it's pretty evenly distributed throughout. It sure isn't like Logan Square where one half bears a disproportionate burden of crime versus the other half. Even the worst neighborhoods will probably have at least a small handful of "normal" blocks here or there; but in Englewood those patches of normalcy must be very very small, and even if you don't "directly see" much crime, living in one of those patches has got to feel like being in prison.

Reminds me of a segment from Chris Rock's piece on the internal culture war in black society where the a kid's "safe playing" area keeps getting smaller and smaller. "'OK, you can go from this block to that block.' Later it's 'OK, you can go from this gate to that gate.' By the time the kid is 10 he's just hopping in circles in front of his house..." only his version is a bit saltier...

ETA: Chris Rock clip here, relevant portion starting at 3:35.

[movintochi966]

Thanks for the good replies. I was really expecting at least one so far along the lines of "are you bashing englewood to make yourself feel better?" from someone with a need to feel morally superior.

Drover not a big fan of chris rock but I like that segment and I believe there is some truth to it.

And not because I need to feel better about myself, but rather out of curiosity, I'd like to hear some of the "horror stories" from that one user. Any links?

[ajolotl]

Well, Englewood objectively sucks as bad as a place in the U.S. can suck. It wouldn't shock me though if a given individual has managed to carve out a relatively peaceful life there, at the very least by luck. When I drive home (wentworth to 73rd and then onto vincennes) I swear parts of wenthworth are downright quaint -- a few attractive and well kept victorians even with landscaping and potted plants, kids playing in the yards, etc. So I'm just guessing there are islands of sanity. I don't know this for a fact though.

West Woodlawn by contrast is clearly a total dilapidated pit. Looks much worse when driving 67th say west of cottage.

[Avengerfire]

It turns out Blago might have been right. Call in the National Guard.

"Seven people were shot on the South Side Sunday night.
The incident, described as “multiple shootings,” happened in the 6500 block of South Winchester and happened around 11:30 p.m..."

Seven shot in Englewood :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Metro & Tri-State