Ickes ohmes to be demolished on aug 3 and Reese contracts given (Chicago: housing, highrise)

[roboto]

Originally Posted by PokerPlayer1

Woo hoo!
Now we can section 8 them all into my neighborhood!
****ing newsflash: putting the "impoverished" into otherwise nice areas is just as catastrophic a failure as concentrating them all in city block. The only difference is, now, you're sharing their misery with everyone else

Isn't it funny, though... When it's highrise housing being given away free to blacks, its an "...intolerable concentration of poverty that is subhuman and unendurable by anyone of conscience." When its sold to whites at a premium price, it's called "condos" and the values generally rise.

I wish we could bulldoze these buildings with the "residents' still in them. Scum of the ****ing earth.

Wonder what happened to this 'community citizen' to get him/her so riled up to wish death to so many.

And Im amazed you already know the results of spreading out low-income homes amongst the richer communities vs concentrating them in projects - they are the exact same! A catastrophic failure you say? You are light years ahead of the Brooking Institute my friend. Well done. You, in all your arrogant ignorance, can teach us all what it is to be a judgemental jackass that can paint huge social issues that face all of us with simple broad strokes. How enlightening you are, what a breath of fresh air. Ive never heard that perspective before, yes, lets get rid of all these people the scum of the earth they all are.

You keep bringing up race, a very complex issue and simplifying it into basic hate-speech. I didnt know it could be so simple. Normally this forum seems to delve into topics a little deeper, so you may not be very appreciated here. You should go back to posting on the Chicago Tribune forum with the all rest of the peace loving and understanding folks on there.

[mas23]

Originally Posted by PokerPlayer1

Funny. Never been in a condo building populated by white people where the stairwells smelled like ****.... It's "society's fault", I guess... Or maybe it has something to do with "guns, germs and steel" or perhaps the inequality in sentences given for crack cocaine versus powdered... That must be it. That's why buildings given away free to the 'impoverished' turn into feral hellholes, hardly a step above the animals.

As far as the elevator thing, yeah, I saw that episode of "Good Times", too.
Fun fact: Did you know that the woman who played Wilona on Good Times sang the theme song to the Jeffersons? No kidding. I bet the stairwells in George and Weezy's building didn't stink like **** (although if they did, Bentley was probably the culprit. He always struck me as the sort of chap who would take a leak wherever he pleased. Those English people are subhuman like that.)

.......................WTF!

[meatpuff]

PokerPlayer1,

You have a lot of complaints but not a lot of solutions. Assuming that government-run mass execution of the urban poor isn't an option (the conservatives wouldn't go along with it anyway - they'd insist it be left to the private sector!!), how should we spur them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Lay out a program.

For my part, I don't know. It's obvious that the 1960s approach of high-rise public housing in the form of Cabrini Green, Robert Taylor Homes, etc., didn't work out despite the best of intentions. I think doing nothing, and letting these families live on the street in tin shacks won't work to break the cycle of poverty either. It's hard for kids to learn at school when their basic needs of food, clothing and shelter aren't being met. There must be some other solution. Maybe you have some ideas.

Originally Posted by PokerPlayer1

Woo hoo!
Now we can section 8 them all into my neighborhood!
****ing newsflash: putting the "impoverished" into otherwise nice areas is just as catastrophic a failure as concentrating them all in city block. The only difference is, now, you're sharing their misery with everyone else

Isn't it funny, though... When it's highrise housing being given away free to blacks, its an "...intolerable concentration of poverty that is subhuman and unendurable by anyone of conscience." When its sold to whites at a premium price, it's called "condos" and the values generally rise.

I wish we could bulldoze these buildings with the "residents' still in them. Scum of the ****ing earth.

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by meatpuff

PokerPlayer1,

You have a lot of complaints but not a lot of solutions. Assuming that government-run mass execution of the urban poor isn't an option (the conservatives wouldn't go along with it anyway - they'd insist it be left to the private sector!!), how should we spur them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Lay out a program.

For my part, I don't know. It's obvious that the 1960s approach of high-rise public housing in the form of Cabrini Green, Robert Taylor Homes, etc., didn't work out despite the best of intentions. I think doing nothing, and letting these families live on the street in tin shacks won't work to break the cycle of poverty either. It's hard for kids to learn at school when their basic needs of food, clothing and shelter aren't being met. There must be some other solution. Maybe you have some ideas.

Actually, I do have a solution. It's quite elegant and simple, actually.
It's called "let people live with the consequences of their own life choices, the government is not your ****ing nanny".
The only role the government should play in this is stepping in and removing children, when they're involved. If they cannot be placed in foster homes, then place them in government run homes where they'll be raised and receive basic needs, education and job training. I realize this doesn't meet up with the weeping, emotive standards of the left, but we've been letting the left dictate this issue for too damn long and they've failed in spectacular fashion, in spite of their good intentions.

Ya see, that is precisely how the world worked for a long, long time. It wasn't until the 1960's and the mass delusion of "equality" coming into play where "productive society" was suddenly saddled with the burden of babysitting failed cultures so we wouldn't have to face the painful fact that indeed, "all people are not equal". We're all supposed to believe that by some distant virtue of "shared humanity"- in spite of massive differences in culture and historical trajectory- that we're all "the same"?

I mean, every single logical, repeatable indicator says the exact opposite- from "what's in front of our very eyes" to any standardized test that might be applied, yet when this painful truism comes into play, we pass it off on the academics to concoct bizarre, hilariously complex rationales to obfuscate reality... "... well, ya see, it all goes back to the people in Africa not having access to durable grains..."

When race and failure is the question, Occam and his razor are no where to be found...

My solution is this.
Let those who can succeed in life succeed. Let those who fail, fail.
If there so happens to be some "racial themes' with the failure, that doesn't beg the question of "what is society doing wrong" but rather, "what is wrong with these people?"

Cliff Notes: I don't care what happens to them. My soloution is to let them control their own destiny. Of course, deep inside, you know that's a failboat voyage waiting to happen. You'll insist that we're all "equal", but deep down, you know that we aren't and it's the job of mighty-whitey to intercede with other cultures and bring them up to our standards. I, for one, am totally sick and tired of this bogus mentality and have lived the real-world consequences of it first hand.
If they can succeed, WONDERFUL! I would love to see it. Of course, let me know if you're laying odds on it actually happening.

[roboto]

Originally Posted by PokerPlayer1

Actually, I do have a solution. It's quite elegant and simple, actually.
It's called "let people live with the consequences of their own life choices, the government is not your ****ing nanny".
The only role the government should play in this is stepping in and removing children, when they're involved. If they cannot be placed in foster homes, then place them in government run homes where they'll be raised and receive basic needs, education and job training. I realize this doesn't meet up with the weeping, emotive standards of the left, but we've been letting the left dictate this issue for too damn long and they've failed in spectacular fashion, in spite of their good intentions.

Ya see, that is precisely how the world worked for a long, long time. It wasn't until the 1960's and the mass delusion of "equality" coming into play where "productive society" was suddenly saddled with the burden of babysitting failed cultures so we wouldn't have to face the painful fact that indeed, "all people are not equal". We're all supposed to believe that by some distant virtue of "shared humanity"- in spite of massive differences in culture and historical trajectory- that we're all "the same"?

I mean, every single logical, repeatable indicator says the exact opposite- from "what's in front of our very eyes" to any standardized test that might be applied, yet when this painful truism comes into play, we pass it off on the academics to concoct bizarre, hilariously complex rationales to obfuscate reality... "... well, ya see, it all goes back to the people in Africa not having access to durable grains..."

When race and failure is the question, Occam and his razor are no where to be found...

My solution is this.
Let those who can succeed in life succeed. Let those who fail, fail.
If there so happens to be some "racial themes' with the failure, that doesn't beg the question of "what is society doing wrong" but rather, "what is wrong with these people?"

Cliff Notes: I don't care what happens to them. My soloution is to let them control their own destiny. Of course, deep inside, you know that's a failboat voyage waiting to happen. You'll insist that we're all "equal", but deep down, you know that we aren't and it's the job of mighty-whitey to intercede with other cultures and bring them up to our standards. I, for one, am totally sick and tired of this bogus mentality and have lived the real-world consequences of it first hand.
If they can succeed, WONDERFUL! I would love to see it. Of course, let me know if you're laying odds on it actually happening.

You obviously dont understand jack**** about social issues, society, history, and apparently could care less! But you continue to comment on things you know absolutely nothing about from your own little place in the world. Are you a child?

Let me explain something to you that you obviously havent seen in life experience. People who call for social justice are not saying everyone deserves equality regardless of work ethic, values, contributions etc. Most people believe you should work for what you get, no one would deny that. Most people are against entitlement programs and never agree with the welfare system as it is now, myself included.

What rational minded people are demanding is an equal playing field, and equal system, and one that doesnt discriminate based on race and/or class! Of course in a capitalist economic system inequality is unavoidable in many ways that cannot be controlled, and probably shouldnt be, but thats not whats being argued. Do you not understand that the systems set in place in the past has resulted in inequality at peoples birth? That there are people who are in the social system that have 10 times as difficult a time to succeed as those of more affluent backgrounds? You think this is fair??!!! You think nothing should be done, that we shouldnt strive to be a better society?

What you think we live in a fricking caste system? You think people are inherently bred to deserve more opportunities than others? You think race and racial issues of the past dont play any type of role, that we should ignore all the injustices of the past? You dont think there should be equal access to things like education - the only way a person could concievably better themselves?!!! WTF?! Are you a just a complete jerk or what?!!!

You are the exact ignorant type of person who sets the world back with your selfish ways, and narrow-minded simplistic take on the world. Yet feel so free to be judgemental on others, feeling entitled to be the one to decide their fate. At least most people who dont know the full story wont comment on things they dont know anything about.

My advice, talk with folks who are different from you, learn other points of view, learn to view society from a more wholistic viewpoint, and stop being a complete brickhead.

[PokerPlayer1]

Originally Posted by roboto

You obviously dont understand jack**** about social issues, society, history, and apparently could care less! But you continue to comment on things you know absolutely nothing about from your own little place in the world. Are you a child?

Let me explain something to you that you obviously havent seen in life experience. People who call for social justice are not saying everyone deserves equality regardless of work ethic, values, contributions etc. Most people believe you should work for what you get, no one would deny that. Most people are against entitlement programs and never agree with the welfare system as it is now, myself included.

What rational minded people are demanding is an equal playing field, and equal system, and one that doesnt discriminate based on race and/or class! Of course in a capitalist economic system inequality is unavoidable in many ways that cannot be controlled, and probably shouldnt be, but thats not whats being argued. Do you not understand that the systems set in place in the past has resulted in inequality at peoples birth? That there are people who are in the social system that have 10 times as difficult a time to succeed as those of more affluent backgrounds? You think this is fair??!!! You think nothing should be done, that we shouldnt strive to be a better society?

What you think we live in a fricking caste system? You think people are inherently bred to deserve more opportunities than others? You think race and racial issues of the past dont play any type of role, that we should ignore all the injustices of the past? You dont think there should be equal access to things like education - the only way a person could concievably better themselves?!!! WTF?! Are you a just a complete jerk or what?!!!

You are the exact ignorant type of person who sets the world back with your selfish ways, and narrow-minded simplistic take on the world. Yet feel so free to be judgemental on others, feeling entitled to be the one to decide their fate. At least most people who dont know the full story wont comment on things they dont know anything about.

My advice, talk with folks who are different from you, learn other points of view, learn to view society from a more wholistic viewpoint, and stop being a complete brickhead.

Your reply was pretty much standard. It isn't like this is some groundbreaking debate where fresh dialog can be expected.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!
YOU'RE IGNORANT!
IGNORANT!
A CHILD!
AN IGNORANT CHILD!
IGNORANT RACIST CHILD!
IGNORANT!

Then, you drift off onto a tangent making "counter points" to things I never claimed or said, either because of some problem with reading comprehension, or because you can't make any substantive counterpoint to anything I really did say.

(and ps- I kinda hate to bring this up because it will appear pedant and nitpick'ish, but it's kind of a peeve of mine... It's "couldn't care less", not "could care less" - and "wholistic" isn't even a real word. Please correct in the future. Domo Arigato)

[krsheely]

IQ really does not have anything to do with the fact that when raised into a culture of failure and poverty a child regardless of color will not succeed. Anyone who thinks differently is incorrect and has spent no time investigating the truth. What you think of normal and acceptable may not be therefore you have predisposed preferences to who you choose to be around or hire for example for a job. Have you ever walked into a store and before you ever uttered a word were looked at as if though you stole money out of a register already? Have you ever not been able to pay for your own lunch at a school cafeteria? Have you ever been inside an inner city public school? The opportunities for advancement are not there. Also forget about getting any real form of health care, physcological care, or any sort of emotional support at all. Oh and by the way for all those with children they cant support, we will go ahead and take them and feed them and put them in school but offer no other sort of foundation for success, sounds like jail. I have not called you a racist one time in this post but I have and will call out your complete lack of comprehension of the problem individuals face. When you walk into a job interview and the perosn doing the interview automatically looks at you as if you stole their car tell me all about the fact that whites are just smarter, I by the way am White but you make me realize just how far we have to come. Please experience things in your life before you generalize what you think you see.

[krsheely]

how bout blame bernie madoff, or sir allen stamford. they had cant blame opportunity there hugh, u can blame greed and lack of accountability.

[ChiMack]

so anyone know what will be built on the ickes site..

[Venom]

Originally Posted by ChiMack

so anyone know what will be built on the ickes site..

It would probably remain vacant for a long time.