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Old 10-08-2009, 10:58 PM
 
1,530 posts, read 3,780,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJaye View Post
Throwing money at the problem has been tried for almost fifty years, and to absolutely no avail. In fact, many of these problems have only gotten worse. I agree that a genuine change in culture is what is needed- the culture changes that lead to these communities being in this state was a negative culture movement. Firstly, the idea that someone paying attention to the teacher, taking school seriously, and wanting to get good grades is being "unhip"/"uncool"/"unreal" HAS GOT TO GO AWAY! When someone has a bright future ahead of them, they think twice about getting pregnent- they have something to lose! Will it still happen? yes, but at a lesser rate. Secondly, fathers, or "baby daddys", need to be fathers and take responsibility for what they have done. I know changing the entire culture like this is not easy, but I feel it is the only way to solve the issues and simply trying to throw more money into a broken system is not going to make much progress. It all comes down to personal responsibility- without it, unfortunately, society is a joke.
Only way this is going to happen is if the visible blacks in the media start making it "uncool" to flunk out.

But when almost the entire black culture visible in the media is about "street cred", you're fighting an uphill battle. Especially since some are making $$$ promoting it.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:04 PM
 
1,530 posts, read 3,780,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post
And the CRUSHING effects of racism on the human mind,body, and soul have been around here for 400 years !
And still black folk,keep on keeping on. A miracle.
How many times do we have to hear this "four hunred years o' slavery" thing repeated over and over?

Tossing *that* broken record aside would do *alot* towards moving in the right direction.

As it is, one of the easiest to see correlations is between the percentage black of an area, and how crime infested it is. As long as this "we were slaves, so we gotta get back at the system" counter/crime culture goes on, the longer will the problems.

Oprah is a billionaire, there are many extremely wealthy black, and depending on who you ask, Obama is black. So it would seem there's no level blacks can't get to in society. But I'll bet the majority that actually got somewhere aren't playing that record.

First thing you need to realize is that the current generation of non-blacks has many of the same economic realities as the black population, and feels no responsibility for an institution that was overturned by war by 1865 and finally in law by the 60's.

The constant harping on "four hunred years o' slavery" actually causes little more than make folks believe the problems within the black community are intractable and that maybe Liberia was the right idea after all.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:14 PM
 
Location: USA
5,738 posts, read 5,416,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMadison View Post
Only way this is going to happen is if the visible blacks in the media start making it "uncool" to flunk out.

But when almost the entire black culture visible in the media is about "street cred", you're fighting an uphill battle. Especially since some are making $$$ promoting it.
This commonly-held view is racist because it assumes that black people are DUMB and follow whatever people put on TV or the radio. You also point out in your next post that there are, in fact, good black role models out there.

I also see absolutely nothing in white-based pop culture that says that going to grad school is cool, but lots of people still seem to do it.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Twilight zone
3,639 posts, read 8,280,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
This commonly-held view is racist because it assumes that black people are DUMB and follow whatever people put on TV or the radio. You also point out in your next post that there are, in fact, good black role models out there.

I also see absolutely nothing in white-based pop culture that says that going to grad school is cool, but lots of people still seem to do it.
For real. People are individuals at the end of the day.

Last edited by mas23; 10-08-2009 at 11:42 PM..
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,817,074 times
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Sure, people are individuals "@" the end of the day. But let's not BS about it -- culture matters and the culture an individual grows up with will frequently impact what kind of individual they become.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Twilight zone
3,639 posts, read 8,280,378 times
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that is true environment or culture is important.

Last edited by mas23; 10-08-2009 at 11:57 PM..
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:51 PM
 
Location: USA
5,738 posts, read 5,416,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Sure, people are individuals "@" the end of the day. But let's not BS about it -- culture matters and the culture an individual grows up with will frequently impact what kind of individual they become.
Absolutely. And the influence from pop culture is completely dwarfed by the culture of the home and neighborhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyPants View Post
Culture is the politically correct phrase for race.
Not true. Do you think that a white family in Bridgeport and a white family in Lincoln Park are very likely to share the same culture and attitudes? A black family in Kenwood and a black family in Englewood? Probably not. There's more to it than race.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:00 AM
 
760 posts, read 1,267,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
Not true. Do you think that a white family in Bridgeport and a white family in Lincoln Park are very likely to share the same culture and attitudes? A black family in Kenwood and a black family in Englewood? Probably not. There's more to it than race.
I agree, however, you cannot deny that when many people use the word "culture" they use it as a code word for race. But you are correct, culture is not limited to race or ethnicity.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,817,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyPants View Post
Culture is the politically correct phrase for race.
No, "culture" is the word for "culture."
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:14 AM
 
4,006 posts, read 6,014,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
I think it's a problem of economics. I don't believe it's a coincidence that the decay of American inner city neighborhoods came at the same time as the decay of American industry. Low-skilled jobs left, and many poor people, particularly blacks, could not or would not obtain the skills necessary to elevate themselves to a higher level of employment, OR perhaps the jobs simply weren't available at the time, giving people little reason to gain skills. This was followed by desperation among people, which led to abandonment and crime (which catalyzed further abandonment). The people leaving at this point were mostly decent folks, leaving even more room for criminals to gain hold of their neighborhoods, all the while a drainage of the middle and upper-class tax base within cities gave the state less ability to fight these criminals. Speaking of black people specifically, I think that centuries of oppression had eliminated much of the entrepreneurship spirit within the population, and from the 50s on, government aid programs have (unintentionally) made it against the interests of many people in the lower-class to make honest, independent livings, creating a cycle of non-productivity and dependence on government handouts.

Some parts of culture (gangs, unwed teenage mothers, etc.) are no doubt part of the problem, but I don't know enough to say whether they are a cause or a symptom of these economic issues, though I am leaning towards the latter.
Very well thought out and stated.
Although the loss of low skilled labor and white flight in the urban areas isn't really a new phenom, it's 30+ years old. Whereas I would contend, and I could be wrong, that the decrease in the social and family structure of the black community in some areas is much more recent. Perhaps a lag affect? But that still doesn't preclude the fact that a majority of the criminals are born to unwed teenage mothers on welfare. I still believe that's the root of the problem. yes, the problem doesn't rear it's head until the kids a teen but it starts when they're very young and most of their influences are negative.
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