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As a St. Louis Native who has spent the majority of my young adult life in Chicago (I'm under 30). I feel like I might be able to help with this. I'll try to be as brief as possible.
Anyway here are the facts.
1. Chicago is a beautiful city. I think my favorite thing about it is actually the aesthetic. It's also true that there are tons of things to do and see... at a price.
2. However, you WILL NOT be able to afford the places you want to live (or shop) without having room mates. $600 might get you a kinda decent studio; but that's pushing it if you want to live some where safe. And by safe I mean, safe for a single woman to walk a couple blocks home after dark. (This has nothing to do with codes about minority neighborhoods.. I live in Hyde Park - a genuinely diverse, slightly overpriced south side neighborhood.)
3. Chicago is a highly segregated and polarized city. Diversity in Chicago requires effort and usually involves people you meet at work. Very few neighborhoods are genuinely diverse and if you're not used to open racism (on all sides) some of the commentary about various neighborhoods and their residents can be appalling. The "Benetton Chicago" is kind of an illusion unless you make it happen.
(I could spend tons of time here but I won't)
4. The public trans is not as affordable as other large cities and although it's abundant, you won't really want to ride it because it's crowded and gross. This leads to..
5. Driving can really suck. Even if you live in the city your commute can be ridiculous and the availability and cost of parking is insane. Let's not even get into battling with kamikaze cab drivers and buses.. even bikers for that matter.
6. The weather can be a challenge to say the least. Summer starts late June and has its bursts of glorious days mixed in with either crappy, cold and rainy days (this past summer) or painfully humid heat waves (like St. Louis). Winter can be hell on earth and lasts until March (It will snow in March). Last winter my husband and I drove to St. Louis several weekends just to escape the windchill and get an extra 15 degrees of warmth.
7. Can't really comment on the economy but the possibility of finding a job here might be easier... if you know someone.
8. The nightlife and entertainment here is pretty amazing but can be very spread out and --again-- expensive. When the newness and excitement wears off and you see the same crowds everywhere you go (this usually take about 1-2years). You're left with the rest of the city.
Since I've spent 8 points on the reality of Chicago, here are some great things about St. Louis:
I never thought I would want to live in St. Louis as an adult but it has a charm that won't find many other places especially for the price. Although you may have to drive, if you live in the city, all of the entertainment, nightlife and culture is easily accessible.
The cost of living may not seem like a huge deal but trust me, being able to live where you want to and in the style of home you prefer makes a big difference in your enjoyment of the city. We considered moving back and found a gorgeous 2bd townhouse on antique row for 980/mo. In Chicago it would easily be $1500-$2000 for the space and location. For $1500 in St.L you're looking at the possibility of a 2-3 story loft on the edge of downtown.
Get out of the county and into to the city of St. Louis and stay central or south. (Maybe Clayton would be a nice middle ground.) Unlike Chicago, the north side of St. Louis is the challenged side of the city. There's so much there to enjoy without the overwhelming cost, traffic, or racial subtext.
I know this was long but I really hope it was helpful.
I love Chicago! However, if you don't think you can afford the cost of living, just move to the city of St Louis. I lived in the burbs for a couple years and hated it. I've been in the city for 3 years now and couldn't be happier. Try the Central West End, Soulard or The Loop (Technically not city). If you live in certain parts of the city you can get by without a car.
As a St. Louis Native who has spent the majority of my young adult life in Chicago (I'm under 30). I feel like I might be able to help with this. I'll try to be as brief as possible.
Anyway here are the facts.
1. Chicago is a beautiful city. I think my favorite thing about it is actually the aesthetic. It's also true that there are tons of things to do and see... at a price.
2. However, you WILL NOT be able to afford the places you want to live (or shop) without having room mates. $600 might get you a kinda decent studio; but that's pushing it if you want to live some where safe. And by safe I mean, safe for a single woman to walk a couple blocks home after dark. (This has nothing to do with codes about minority neighborhoods.. I live in Hyde Park - a genuinely diverse, slightly overpriced south side neighborhood.)
3. Chicago is a highly segregated and polarized city. Diversity in Chicago requires effort and usually involves people you meet at work. Very few neighborhoods are genuinely diverse and if you're not used to open racism (on all sides) some of the commentary about various neighborhoods and their residents can be appalling. The "Benetton Chicago" is kind of an illusion unless you make it happen.
(I could spend tons of time here but I won't)
4. The public trans is not as affordable as other large cities and although it's abundant, you won't really want to ride it because it's crowded and gross. This leads to..
5. Driving can really suck. Even if you live in the city your commute can be ridiculous and the availability and cost of parking is insane. Let's not even get into battling with kamikaze cab drivers and buses.. even bikers for that matter.
6. The weather can be a challenge to say the least. Summer starts late June and has its bursts of glorious days mixed in with either crappy, cold and rainy days (this past summer) or painfully humid heat waves (like St. Louis). Winter can be hell on earth and lasts until March (It will snow in March). Last winter my husband and I drove to St. Louis several weekends just to escape the windchill and get an extra 15 degrees of warmth.
7. Can't really comment on the economy but the possibility of finding a job here might be easier... if you know someone.
8. The nightlife and entertainment here is pretty amazing but can be very spread out and --again-- expensive. When the newness and excitement wears off and you see the same crowds everywhere you go (this usually take about 1-2years). You're left with the rest of the city.
Since I've spent 8 points on the reality of Chicago, here are some great things about St. Louis:
I never thought I would want to live in St. Louis as an adult but it has a charm that won't find many other places especially for the price. Although you may have to drive, if you live in the city, all of the entertainment, nightlife and culture is easily accessible.
Very good post--here's my comments on your bullet points.
1. The biggest weakness I notice in the aesthetic department is the lack of hills in Chicago. St. Louis actually has some sort of resemblance of hills.
2. Hyde Park's a great neighborhood.
3. Definitely a lot of truth; very thankful that my workplace is EXTREMELY diverse (our dept has people from India, Iran, Egypt, Syria, Ukraine, Asian Americans, African Americans, and caucausians, and we actually have Muslims, Christians and Jews working together and setting aside those differences).
4. and 5. Pick your poison. Both options can royally suck. Suck it up with the CTA and earn the money you're saving or empty your wallet for a car and hope it doesn't get stolen, or dinged, breaks down, gets blasted with Mayor Daley parking tickets/etc.
6. Pick your battles again. Matter of personal preference, which for me I actually like the springtime in Chicago and those lake breeze mid 40s days and hate uber hot weather with a passion.
7. Totally dependent on your field/your own personal situation. I make 70% more money here than I could in MO, and have significantly greater long term opportunity with my career. Which brings up the most overlooked concept in cost of living: What you're really looking to do with cost of living is MAXIMIZE YOUR OWN PERSONAL BOTTOM LINE PROFIT. For example, if city A has a total cost (including nightlife/travel/etc) of $2000 per month and you take home $2400 and city B costs you $3000 per month and you take home $3600 then you're actually better off in city B. A question that one must ask when making a move is whether the investment (the risk incurred by paying a higher cost of living and potentially being saddled with the same or lower income level) is worth the potential payoff (the reward of significantly higher income/career advancement, augmented by whatever cultural/lifestyle improvements gained).
8. No need to add anything, other than emphasize that the nightlife is indeed amazing.
I'd like to thank everyone for the comments. They were indeed very helpful. I still haven't decided on what I'm going to do. Just one of the main reasons why I wanted to move to Chicago was for greater diversity. Perhaps I can fix that problem by leaving the burbs and moving into a more diverse area in St. Louis. I'm still not completely familiar with St. Louis however, so I'm not sure where I can find a diverse area that's clean and safe. The burbs are boring but I love the cleanliness and safety. Also I think that I could make more money in Chicago, a point in which the above poster was talking about. Last but not least, my heart will always be in California, and maybe I'll just stay in St. Louis and stick it out until we recover from the economy. Someone said that diversity is just a fantasy but I've lived it--in California and now I'm spoiled to it. Also I take acting lessons, and Chicago has better acting schools than St. Louis. I don't know if moving to Chicago would be better in the long run, or if it would be cheaper for me to just travel to Chicago once a week to take classes. So it all boils down to what is cheaper, the cost of living in Chicago or travelling to Chicago for my passion. Anyway thanks everyone for the great information. It truly has helped. I wasn't aware that Chicago was a segregated city. I know Chicago is battling crime issues at an alarming rate, but according to stats St. Louis is one of the top dangerous US cities too.
Last edited by MeetMeinSTL; 12-20-2009 at 02:31 AM..
St Louis is generally safe except for a handful of neighborhoods. I would recommend looking for a place in the city and get out of the burbs as well. Try Soulard, Downtown, CWE, Dogtown, The Hill, Benton Park for starters. There is plenty of diversity in STL if thats what you are looking for.
What is this "void" you speak of? How do you know that if you move to Chi the "void" will be gone?
I'd like to thank everyone for the comments. They were indeed very helpful. I still haven't decided on what I'm going to do. Just one of the main reasons why I wanted to move to Chicago was for greater diversity. Perhaps I can fix that problem by leaving the burbs and moving into a more diverse area in St. Louis. I'm still not completely familiar with St. Louis however, so I'm not sure where I can find a diverse area that's clean and safe. The burbs are boring but I love the cleanliness and safety. Also I think that I could make more money in Chicago, a point in which the above poster was talking about. Last but not least, my heart will always be in California, and maybe I'll just stay in St. Louis and stick it out until we recover from the economy. Someone said that diversity is just a fantasy but I've lived it--in California and now I'm spoiled to it. Also I take acting lessons, and Chicago has better acting schools than St. Louis. I don't know if moving to Chicago would be better in the long run, or if it would be cheaper for me to just travel to Chicago once a week to take classes. So it all boils down to what is cheaper, the cost of living in Chicago or travelling to Chicago for my passion. Anyway thanks everyone for the great information. It truly has helped. I wasn't aware that Chicago was a segregated city. I know Chicago is battling crime issues at an alarming rate, but according to stats St. Louis is one of the top dangerous US cities too.
You may see yourself as making more money in Chicago, which depending on your field is certainly possible. That said, to live a comparable lifestyle in Chicago as you would in St. Louis you are going to have to make quite a bit more money.
If you are looking for someplace in St. Louis that may suit you, check out the southern part of Soulard, around Barton. Definitely urban by St. Louis standards yet much quieter than the area a few blocks to the north.
Wow! What a helpful comment! As "Captain Obvious" I am obligated to protect those who are like minded from mean comments- Next time try a nicer approach like: "That's already been stated on this thread" Capeesh?!
THank you.
I'd like to thank everyone for the comments. They were indeed very helpful. I still haven't decided on what I'm going to do. Just one of the main reasons why I wanted to move to Chicago was for greater diversity. Perhaps I can fix that problem by leaving the burbs and moving into a more diverse area in St. Louis. I'm still not completely familiar with St. Louis however, so I'm not sure where I can find a diverse area that's clean and safe. The burbs are boring but I love the cleanliness and safety. Also I think that I could make more money in Chicago, a point in which the above poster was talking about. Last but not least, my heart will always be in California, and maybe I'll just stay in St. Louis and stick it out until we recover from the economy. Someone said that diversity is just a fantasy but I've lived it--in California and now I'm spoiled to it. Also I take acting lessons, and Chicago has better acting schools than St. Louis. I don't know if moving to Chicago would be better in the long run, or if it would be cheaper for me to just travel to Chicago once a week to take classes. So it all boils down to what is cheaper, the cost of living in Chicago or travelling to Chicago for my passion. Anyway thanks everyone for the great information. It truly has helped. I wasn't aware that Chicago was a segregated city. I know Chicago is battling crime issues at an alarming rate, but according to stats St. Louis is one of the top dangerous US cities too.
If you find the burbs boring in Stl, you will find them equally so in Chicago. Also the time it takes to get to and from the burbs in Chicago is far longer than it is to do so in Stl. In terms of safety, again, I don't see much difference for you here. If you don't feel safe in the city of St. Louis, you likely won't in the city of Chicago, and we are of course talking about the perceived "safer" areas of both.
People have been through the Stl crime stats thing a gazillion times. Crime in Stl exists in the North City in high amounts, and across the river in East St. Louis IL in high amounts. These are not the areas suggested to you. I would not say suggest you go to certain parts of the South and West sides of Chicago either. St. Louis City is not a part of St. Louis County and vice versa which also skews those stats.
I'd advise you to spend a lot more urban time in Stl in your free time, day and night with a friend, and get a feel for the different neighborhoods. Central West End, Soulard, Benton Park, Loft District, downtown, The Grove, Deballivere, Lafayette Square, Tower Grove Heights, Dogtown, Tower Grove South, Shaw, Southwest Garden, South Grand, and so on...in order to obtain a somewhat informed opinion of your likes and dislikes of those areas. Or if you simply want to be close to the city, but not in it, try U.City, Clayton, Richmond Heights, Brentwood, etc...
Imo you need to do some exploring in your own metro area.
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