Population dropoff (Chicago, Hinsdale: real estate market, mortgage, school tuition)

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

There are a few great schools. Not enough to meet demand though. There are a few more which are mediocre. There are many which are atrocious.

I think there are a few out there (that are overlooked and some are slated to close) that are very decent, but extremely underutilized for some odd reason.

However, overall, Sukwoo's comment is right on.

I am a product of the CPS and a life long resident of Chicago and I agree generally with his comment.

[Drover]

There are scores of thousands of young families who have "checked their facts" because they wanted desperately to stay in the city, and then beat a path to the suburbs when their fact check revealed that it's fantastically difficult to give their kids a proper education in CPS schools.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Basekamp

Just don't try to say you're from Chicago if you live more than 5 miles outside of city limits, you're not!

Oak Park is across the street from Chicago.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

There are a few great schools. Not enough to meet demand though. There are a few more which are mediocre. There are many which are atrocious.

The "great schools" like Northside College Prep, Walter Payton, and Whitney Young, are great because they're really difficult to get into--especially of you're not from a "disadvantaged minority group" (i.e. not white or Asian). At the elementary school level there are some schools I would call "decent" like Bell, Blaine, Nettlehorst, etc. But the quality of these hyped CPS elemetaries is still a step down from many suburban school districts. If you want your kid guaranteed a spot in a good school, your only real choice is to go private, and that ain't cheap. The prestigious privates like Latin, Parker, or British are all about $25K per year--even for Kindergarten!

Schools ARE a big issue for people with kids in Chicago. No, you don't have to send your kid to a run-down ghetto school where they are in danger of getting shot if you stick with CPS. But is a school that is just passable good enough for your kids? Or do you want a good school that will give them an advantage in life?

Will I ultimately move to the burbs when my daughter reaches Kindergarten? My wife and I still haven't decided. We really don't like most suburbs, but there are a few older walkable ones with train access that we would consider. It's easy to point fingers when you're not in the economic position yourself, but when you need to balance your household budget and find education for your child the situation is as real as it gets.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by Basekamp

You got us Sukwoo. Us downtowners and our plans to "sacrifice" the children. Hit the nail right on the head.

check your facts plenty of great city schools.

Don't get me wrong. I love Chicago and if it wasn't for my commute, I'd live in Lincoln Park. I wouldn't be in Chicago because of the superior educational opportunities afforded by CPS. I'd be in Chicago despite the poor public education. But then, my wife and I are fortunate enough to pay whatever is necessary for good private schooling for our daughter.

[ajolotl]

I agree with the Sukwoo and LK perspective. However, I think I'm among those who is too quick to dismiss a school without really knowing much about it -- looking for example at test scores or how many poor and/or thuggish looking kids walk out the door when the bell rings. Unimpressive test scores aren't so meaningful if there is a bi-modal distribution AND the accelerated students are not held back because of some egalitarian educational philosophy -- like a strong honors track where there is investment in and encouragement in the best students. That's how my elementary school was and I don't think it could have been much better. I have plenty of friends who send their kids to Ray and Murray in Hyde Park are very happy with the teachers and curriculum. Same with Sutherland in Beverly. They also claim to believe that learning to navigate the more diverse social structure in such an environment is one of the benefits of a non-sheltered, urban education.

There might be some value to that perspective, but the problem is that it is just as likely to be total crap. People don't like to experiment with their kids. Better just to play it safe and send them the best place that you can given the circumstances. If I couldn't afford private school I'd probably be in Naperville, counting the days until I could get out. LK, if my job disappears I'll see you in the burbs ....

[oakparkdude]

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but for Chicago to become attractive to all people (not just the young, single, affluent, and childless), the top three priorities for the mayor should be:

1. Good schools.
2. Low Crime.
3. Good transportation.

He's doing a decent job at working on #1. #2 has shown significant improvement over the past 10 years (not sure how much the mayor had to do with it.) He's failing with #3.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

The prestigious privates like Latin, Parker, or British are all about $25K per year--even for Kindergarten!

There are a lot of good private schools that cost a lot less than half that - Montessori and Catholic schools for example. Education is definitely a concern in the city, but I think there are more options than most people see.

I've been touring elementary schools and have been finding test scores to be an imperfect way to judge schools. There are a lot of open enrollment schools that I have been impressed with. While they have middle of the road test scores, some had a really great environment when I sat in on classes and met the students, parents, and staff. As ajolotl said, a good honors program is important.

[ajolotl]

Yes, seems like half the kids in Beverly go to St. Barnabas on 101st and Longwood (k-8). The school has a very solid reputation and apparently only costs something like 5K/year. Of course, you have to have a taste for parochial schooling. I don't, but maybe that's as much my problem as anything else. Apparently lots of non-catholics go there.

[ajolotl]

I also have a condo down the block from Mt. Carmel. Amazingly kids come from all over the city and burbs, including extremely affluent areas like Hindsdale. Not sure what it costs but I'm sure it's nowhere close to 20k/year.