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Old 06-11-2010, 03:48 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I never defended KJV as falwless. As a matter of fact I corrected it myself just a few pages back. One of the URs claimed KJV "all will be saved" was correct in KVJ, but I pointed out the flaw in the translation. The correct translation is "He desires all to be saved".
We could re-post all the verses that say God will get what He desires, but you might as well look back on the other threads or better yet, look them up in the bible for yourself.
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:57 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,639 times
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Bible wasn't originally written in English. The word "hell" is not Hebrew or Greek word, its English! The Hebrew and Greek under the English word eternal, doesn't mean endless.

And interestingly enough, the NIV translators totally omitted the words hell and hellfire from the entire Old Testament, and the words don't even appear once.

In the original languages of the Bible - Hebrew and Koine Greek, eternal hellfire is NEVER taught! We only get this idea of an eternal hellfire where people will burn forever in agony in the English Bible. But God never ever taught it, and eternal hellfire is not Biblical.

Eternal hellfire stems from devils first lie[Gen 3:4], then came pagan philosophy, jewish apostasies, catholicism then protestantism!

And these people actually get angry and their stomachs begin to crawl, thats how mad they get when you reject the lie of eternal hellfire.

In the Hebrew and Greek, Sheol[Hebrew] and Hades,Tartaroo and Gehenna[Greek] is a place of death, darkness & silence. In other words, the grave! But the English word "Hell" means an eternal burning place of agony! But in the original Hebrew/Greek, there is no such word as "hell".

The Roman Catholic Church pushed for this "eternal hellfire" teaching so they could get money of out of people from fear during dark ages, and this led and influenced translators to use english words such as "hell" and "eternal" for greek words that does NOT mean hell or endless.

God is a loving merciful God, and not a tormenting, revengful and sadistic God as you claim that will burn forever the lost where they will be screaming out in TERROR and PAIN forever without being able to ever put a stop to their pain!

What's the purpose of God's punishment as taught in Bible? Punishment is for CORRECTION and REDIRECTION of acts, to align with God's law and repent! Yet with a eternal hellfire, there is no objective in it, there is no end to the punishment and no opportunity to change and repent, hence, NO objective to the punishment! I reject the idea of eternal punishment and my God and my Bible doesn't teach it.

And if the wages of sin was eternal hellfire and agony, that would mean that Jesus, our total substitute, who had to bear the FULL penalty of our sins, would have to burn forever in agony in eternal hellfire.

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump! but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.

When Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt. But English translators made it into HELL an English word that never exists in the original Greek.

Since rubbish and dead criminals and bodies were continuously added, the fires were perpetually flamed and kept alight. However, individual bodies did not burn endlessly, they became ashes! Eternal hellfire is ONLY taught in English translations, it is not taught in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

Also...Immortality is the key. And only the saved will get it! Hence, the lost wont get it and will DIE and not LIVE in some fire. If people were to burn in fire forever, that would mean they are given immortality as well, but this contradicts 1Cor 15:53! And only the saved will have access to the tree of life in heaven! The lost wont and so hence, cannot live forever in some fire

Who has immortality? The Bible says only God does. But at the resurrection the saved receive it as a gift - 1Cor 15:53. And do the lost receive immortality? y/n? Answer: NO! So without immortality, they will die and not live in some eternal fire! Only the saved will receive immortality and access to the tree of life!

Without immortality and without access to the tree of life, the lost will DIE and DEATH means death and is the cessation of life. Read John 3:36, it says without Jesus, there is NO LIFE! Now that means death! But Satan said to Eve that death means life! See how Satan has tricked many with what he told Eve? Read Gen 3:4-5
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,382,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Well of course everlasting means everlasting but aionios does not mean everlasting. Did you go through your New Testament and put "age" everywhere "aion" is rather than "world"?





I noticed you left this part of the quote out:

Tony wrote which Fin didn't quote:
Oh, by the way, Since 1 Timothy 2:6 says that Christ ransomed all, why would God just desire to save all mankind since all who are ransomed must be freed?
But Fin only quoted this:
Mankind are slaves to sin and death. So they must be freed into God's salvation.

And Fin replied:


Notice why Fin didn't quote the really tough part? It's because he doesn't want anyone to think about the part of all mankind being ransomed. He must know it destroys his philosophy because I'm sure by now he has done a complete
study of "ransom" through the whole bible and knows every person and animal ransomed must be freed.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 is not about people having to "accept Christ to enjoy everlasting life". It is about what Jesus did in ransoming all mankind and that's the reason why God will save all mankind.

I will be in the heavens for the eons of the eons and will have eonian life or life pertaining to the final two eons. And when the eons end I will continue to live because I will have put on immortality.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,519 posts, read 31,902,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
We could re-post all the verses that say God will get what He desires, but you might as well look back on the other threads or better yet, look them up in the bible for yourself.
And I could repost all the verses refering to the requirement for salvation in Jesus's own words but you might as well look back on the other threads or better yet, look them up in the bible for yourself.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:35 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,221 posts, read 19,991,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And I could repost all the verses refering to the requirement for salvation in Jesus's own words but you might as well look back on the other threads or better yet, look them up in the bible for yourself.
Requirements for salvation ??? . I have heard it all now . Salvation comes to us , reveals itself to us and then births us into it , i see no requirements in this at all .It just appears to the carnal mind that we are choosing and rejecting so that we can boast in ourselves and forbid others.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,421 posts, read 29,551,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say God WILL save all mankind.

Is there no end to the cherry picking, misrepresenting and twisting the word of God?

It saddens me to see so many people deliberatly trying to lead people away from the truth of God.
You are correct the Bible does NOT say ALL will be saved, it is VERY sad to see how the devil has blinded people
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,081,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
You are correct the Bible does NOT say ALL will be saved, it is VERY sad to see how the devil has blinded people
I don't know about theat ILNC.....so far when I see the fruits of the many, many UR's on this forum - they are clearly following the light of God's Love and there is nothing dark in that my friend Nadda Devil Nope
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:43 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,421 posts, read 29,551,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
I don't know about theat ILNC.....so far when I see the fruits of the many, many UR's on this forum - they are clearly following the light of God's Love and there is nothing dark in that my friend Nadda Devil Nope
It's not a threat. Anyone not following what God's Word teaches, is in the dark.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,081,882 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
It's not a threat. Anyone not following what God's Word teaches, is in the dark.
They are completely following what Jesus taught though.....they have chosen to do their homework and to truly read the Word instead of just taking for granted what has been taught. I see them as true channels of God's Love. There is no room for any form of darnkess when God's love dwells within your soul.

I believe that the doctrine of ET will diminish as more and more souls reach out to God and follow the commandments Jesus told us to focus on.
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:01 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,437,909 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Your understanding of that verse is not what the verse is saying. It doesn't say: "I stand at the door with a free gift under my arm and if you refuse to open you won't receive it."

It is said to a very specific Jewish group of believers. He is going to go to that specific group. If anyone of that Jewish group of already believers opens the door He will come into that group and sup with that specific person in that specific group of believers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, absolutely not. He uses a Christian Church in Laodicea (today's Turkey) as a symbolic example, but he is talking about EVERYBODY.
There are seven different, very specific Jewish, synagogues of believers Christ is addressing in the future Day of the Lord which John, in spirit, went to in the future.

The synagogue in Laodicea is one specific body of believers which, in that future day, will have specific problems which He addresses.

For instance, to the synagogue in Smyrna He says:

Rev 2:9 '"I am aware of your acts and affliction and poverty (but you are rich) and the calumny of those saying that they themselves are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

Anyway, the "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyone (of the specific church in Laodicea) hears My voice and opens the door I will come into (that synagogue) toward him and sup with him and he with Me.

It is not saying, "If anyone hears my voice I will come into him" as Christians improperly say. The Greek has "into toward him" and you must supply the elippsis.
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