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Old 06-12-2010, 08:58 AM
 
223 posts, read 248,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I never defended KJV as falwless. As a matter of fact I corrected it myself just a few pages back. One of the URs claimed KJV "all will be saved" was correct in KVJ, but I pointed out the flaw in the translation. The correct translation is "He desires all to be saved".
But, there are so many Bible texts that shows NOT all will be saved. If all will be saved there'll be no need for people to read the Bible and understand the plan of Salvation and be WASHED in the BLOOD of the LAMB !


YouTube - Are you washed in the blood / I'll Fly away
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Old 06-12-2010, 09:46 AM
 
223 posts, read 248,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Bible wasn't originally written in English. The word "hell" is not Hebrew or Greek word, its English! The Hebrew and Greek under the English word eternal, doesn't mean endless.

And interestingly enough, the NIV translators totally omitted the words hell and hellfire from the entire Old Testament, and the words don't even appear once.

In the original languages of the Bible - Hebrew and Koine Greek, eternal hellfire is NEVER taught! We only get this idea of an eternal hellfire where people will burn forever in agony in the English Bible. But God never ever taught it, and eternal hellfire is not Biblical.

Eternal hellfire stems from devils first lie[Gen 3:4], then came pagan philosophy, jewish apostasies, catholicism then protestantism!

And these people actually get angry and their stomachs begin to crawl, thats how mad they get when you reject the lie of eternal hellfire.

In the Hebrew and Greek, Sheol[Hebrew] and Hades,Tartaroo and Gehenna[Greek] is a place of death, darkness & silence. In other words, the grave! But the English word "Hell" means an eternal burning place of agony! But in the original Hebrew/Greek, there is no such word as "hell".

The Roman Catholic Church pushed for this "eternal hellfire" teaching so they could get money of out of people from fear during dark ages, and this led and influenced translators to use english words such as "hell" and "eternal" for greek words that does NOT mean hell or endless.

God is a loving merciful God, and not a tormenting, revengful and sadistic God as you claim that will burn forever the lost where they will be screaming out in TERROR and PAIN forever without being able to ever put a stop to their pain!

What's the purpose of God's punishment as taught in Bible? Punishment is for CORRECTION and REDIRECTION of acts, to align with God's law and repent! Yet with a eternal hellfire, there is no objective in it, there is no end to the punishment and no opportunity to change and repent, hence, NO objective to the punishment! I reject the idea of eternal punishment and my God and my Bible doesn't teach it.

And if the wages of sin was eternal hellfire and agony, that would mean that Jesus, our total substitute, who had to bear the FULL penalty of our sins, would have to burn forever in agony in eternal hellfire.

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump! but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.

When Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt. But English translators made it into HELL an English word that never exists in the original Greek.

Since rubbish and dead criminals and bodies were continuously added, the fires were perpetually flamed and kept alight. However, individual bodies did not burn endlessly, they became ashes! Eternal hellfire is ONLY taught in English translations, it is not taught in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

Also...Immortality is the key. And only the saved will get it! Hence, the lost wont get it and will DIE and not LIVE in some fire. If people were to burn in fire forever, that would mean they are given immortality as well, but this contradicts 1Cor 15:53! And only the saved will have access to the tree of life in heaven! The lost wont and so hence, cannot live forever in some fire

Who has immortality? The Bible says only God does. But at the resurrection the saved receive it as a gift - 1Cor 15:53. And do the lost receive immortality? y/n? Answer: NO! So without immortality, they will die and not live in some eternal fire! Only the saved will receive immortality and access to the tree of life!

Without immortality and without access to the tree of life, the lost will DIE and DEATH means death and is the cessation of life. Read John 3:36, it says without Jesus, there is NO LIFE! Now that means death! But Satan said to Eve that death means life! See how Satan has tricked many with what he told Eve? Read Gen 3:4-5
Mr T.

I like'd ALL your points!! Especially the point on Immortality and SATAN.

You've done a great job in your re-search in the Greek/Hebrew writings.

I'm Sure since you realised you were tricked by EGW it has made U more determined to search for TRUTH.

I will give you a TRIPLE pointer in your REP TALLY!! if at all possible?

Give my regards to the ALFS and tell them my blood pressure is lot better now. Tell them i may visit when i have more time and feel up to it. I will bring them some fruits when i visit. Whats their fav fruit? I think Bananas and nuts would be to their liking?

May God continue to bless you with WISDOM as you go on your journey in spreading TRUTH.

J Dan B
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Old 06-12-2010, 09:57 AM
 
223 posts, read 248,903 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Don't you find it strange the Israelis, the chosen people, somehow managed to keep the door shut. Yes, they were called, but they chose to not come.
Thats because SATAN is doing some calling too. More humans listen to SATAN and they like what he says.
Many false prophets LOVE what SATAN says to them and how he can make them WEALTHY if they choose to spread his word. Its sad but its true!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W0G6...eature=related





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-cbpQqqRBo

Last edited by JOHNC10; 06-12-2010 at 10:15 AM..
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:39 PM
 
115 posts, read 110,961 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Eternal Torment preached at Baccalaureate

Tonight a public speaker flew in from Atlanta to speak at my daughter's baccalaureate. The main topic was heaven or hell. This guy rubbs elbows with all the famous athletes. He starts off by asking the audience if anyone believe hell is eternal. I said "NO!" But he didn't get a good enough response from the audience so he asked the question again "Does anyone here believe hell is eternal?" and this time I yelled "NO!!!!". Lot's of people turned around and looked right at me. He continued as if nothing was said.
He spent 45 minutes mentally abusing the graduates telling them all about how God is going to eternally torment them in hell if they don't believe in Him. He kept snapping his fingers and saying "every second two people in the world die. Before your head hits the pillow over a hundred thousand people will have died in the world. What are you going to do about it? All those people will go to heaven or hell he said.

After the abuse session I had a word with him in front of my daughter. I asked him, Mark, would your earthly father torture you if you didn't do what he told you to do? He snapped back: "What's your point." So I asked again, very gently, Would your dad build a bonfire in the back yard and torture you in those flames if you didn't do what he told you to do. He replied "No. What's your point." So I asked him if his earthly father is more loving than his heavenly father.

Then I started telling him all about 1 Timothy 2:4-6 how that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all. I told him to do a study on the world "ransom" through the whole bible and prove to himself that everyone ransomed had to be freed. He replied, Yea but there is a hell and lots of people are going there. I replied, Mark, what did I just say? I said "God will have all mankind to be saved because Christ ransomed all mankind. He asked, What's the context? I replied "we are to pray for all mankind, for kings and all who are in authority for God will have all mankind to be saved for Christ ransomed all." He asked: Are you a Jehovah's Witness?" I said No. He said: Well there is a hell and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I replied that that hell is Gehenna and it is only for the thousand years. And I said the lake of fire is the second death and that no one suffers in the lake of fire because it is death. He replied, "yea but it is for ever and ever and ever and ever." I replied, No it is just for ever and ever. He replied, well that's eternity isn't it? I said no and I rattled off the Greek for it. So he told me to send him some literature and he'd read it. He said "You can't prove to me it's not eternal." I laughed and pointed my finger right at him and said "I sure can prove it's not eternal!"
I told him, Mark, you are tormented by this. He said "No I'm not." I said of course you are. You are tormented. I told him I used to preach hell and damnation. He said you need to get back to it. I said to just search out the word "ransom" and prove to yourself that all ransomed must be freed.
My daughter was amazed I wouldn't back down from this 6'6 or so tall guy.

Anyway, what book do you think I should send him that you think would really help him?
You are right on, brother in Christ!
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:41 PM
 
115 posts, read 110,961 times
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Quote:
I'm Sure since you realised you were tricked by EGW it has made U more determined to search for TRUTH.
Shge pointed people to the Bible, no tricks. In her last public address she held up the Bible and said: "Gentlemen, I commend unto you this book."
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Florida
58,819 posts, read 32,279,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Requirements for salvation ??? . I have heard it all now . Salvation comes to us , reveals itself to us and then births us into it , i see no requirements in this at all .It just appears to the carnal mind that we are choosing and rejecting so that we can boast in ourselves and forbid others.
Yep, that's right. Jesus Christ himself said one must be born again in order to be saved.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
58,819 posts, read 32,279,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
There are seven different, very specific Jewish, synagogues of believers Christ is addressing in the future Day of the Lord which John, in spirit, went to in the future.

The synagogue in Laodicea is one specific body of believers which, in that future day, will have specific problems which He addresses.

For instance, to the synagogue in Smyrna He says:

Rev 2:9 '"I am aware of your acts and affliction and poverty (but you are rich) and the calumny of those saying that they themselves are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

Anyway, the "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyone (of the specific church in Laodicea) hears My voice and opens the door I will come into (that synagogue) toward him and sup with him and he with Me.

It is not saying, "If anyone hears my voice I will come into him" as Christians improperly say. The Greek has "into toward him" and you must supply the elippsis.
Churches, not synagoges. Study up!
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Florida
58,819 posts, read 32,279,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNC10 View Post
But, there are so many Bible texts that shows NOT all will be saved. If all will be saved there'll be no need for people to read the Bible and understand the plan of Salvation and be WASHED in the BLOOD of the LAMB !
I am in 100% agreement with you there. Anyone who claims ALL will be saved shows wanton disregard for dozens upon dozens of Bible passages which specifically state otherwise.

And we all know that wanton disregard is the trademark of a false teaching.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:11 PM
 
365 posts, read 426,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNC10 View Post
But, there are so many Bible texts that shows NOT all will be saved. If all will be saved there'll be no need for people to read the Bible and understand the plan of Salvation and be WASHED in the BLOOD of the LAMB !


YouTube - Are you washed in the blood / I'll Fly away
The only people who will be lost are those who refuses to love the truth and be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:43 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,516,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Churches, not synagoges. Study up!
John agreed with Peter, James and Peter that he would only be for the Circumcision and Paul for the nations (Galatians 2). So John's revelation is strictly for the Circumcision Jewish believers. Study up!
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