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Old 06-13-2010, 06:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
The only people who will be lost are those who refuses to love the truth and be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
But it begs the question, why do they not receive the love of the truth? It is because God did not give that to them. Remember, no one can come to the Son unless the Father draw him.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
But it begs the question, why do they not receive the love of the truth? It is because God did not give that to them. Remember, no one can come to the Son unless the Father draw him.
Read the verse carefully, it explains it. They heard and knew the truth, but they refused to love the truth. If they never had have heard the truth in the first place, then they couldn't have "refused to love the truth".

People will have no excuses. Even those who had never heard of Jesus or ever seen a bible will be without excuse.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:09 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Read the verse carefully, it explains it. They heard and knew the truth, but they refused to love the truth. If they never had have heard the truth in the first place, then they couldn't have "refused to love the truth".

People will have no excuses. Even those who had never heard of Jesus or ever seen a bible will be without excuse.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
So how did you come to know the truth ?

Did you find it ? or was it revealed to you ?

Oh yea if it was revealed to you , how come we are without excuse ?
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:46 AM
 
365 posts, read 424,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So how did you come to know the truth ?

Did you find it ? or was it revealed to you ?

Oh yea if it was revealed to you , how come we are without excuse ?
When I was a young boy, I always believed in God. I remember asking my teachers in School too, because back then we had religion classes. But I grew up in a family with nobody being a Christian and nobody reading the bible. So it wasn't until I was 33 years of age that I myself asked a Christian neighbour to share the gospel with me. I have never been the same since.

I am the only Christian in my entire family.

John 14:6 changed my life a lot.. because when I read that verse for the first time I realised... Jesus IS the Truth. And I love the truth with all my heart and it brought me to Jesus.
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:33 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Read the verse carefully, it explains it. They heard and knew the truth, but they refused to love the truth. If they never had have heard the truth in the first place, then they couldn't have "refused to love the truth".

People will have no excuses. Even those who had never heard of Jesus or ever seen a bible will be without excuse.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
O.K. here is the context:

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 CLV (8) then will be unveiled the lawless one
(whom the Lord Jesus will despatch with the spirit of His mouth and will
discard by the advent of His presence), (9) whose presence is in accord
with the operation of Satan, with all power and signs and false miracles"
(10) and with every seduction of injustice among those who are
perishing, because they do not receive the love of the truth for their
salvation." (11) And therefore God will be sending them an operation of
deception, for them to believe the falsehood, (12) that all may be judged
who do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice."

It does not say they did not "love the truth" but that they did not receive the love of the truth. Or put another way: They did not receive truth's love.
What is the love of the truth? It is not "the love for the truth." It is put in the genitive case showing possession, i.e., Son of God is "God's Son." Love of the truth is "truth's love."

If the grass doesn't receive the rain it perishes.
If the people don't receive the love of the truth they perish.
Question: Why don't they receive the love of the truth?
Answer: God didn't give it to them.
God gives them an operation of deception for them to believe the falsehood.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 does not say, as you intimate, "they heard and knew the truth." They may have heard it but they didn't receive the love of the truth. Only God can give the love of the truth to people.

Your quotation of Romans 1:20 is not about the evangel/gospel. It is about humanity being without excuse that God exists.

Last edited by Eusebius; 06-14-2010 at 06:53 AM..
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:24 PM
 
191 posts, read 209,644 times
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Wht this public speaker says is correct, that is the word of God..hell is real and if we dont likewise repent we will go there to hell for eternal..believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved..if anyone reject him he will reject you..that is the word of God..
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:26 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
O.K. here is the context:

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 CLV (8) then will be unveiled the lawless one
(whom the Lord Jesus will despatch with the spirit of His mouth and will
discard by the advent of His presence), (9) whose presence is in accord
with the operation of Satan, with all power and signs and false miracles"
(10) and with every seduction of injustice among those who are
perishing, because they do not receive the love of the truth for their
salvation." (11) And therefore God will be sending them an operation of
deception, for them to believe the falsehood, (12) that all may be judged
who do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice."

It does not say they did not "love the truth" but that they did not receive the love of the truth. Or put another way: They did not receive truth's love.
What is the love of the truth? It is not "the love for the truth." It is put in the genitive case showing possession, i.e., Son of God is "God's Son." Love of the truth is "truth's love."

If the grass doesn't receive the rain it perishes.
If the people don't receive the love of the truth they perish.
Question: Why don't they receive the love of the truth?
Answer: God didn't give it to them.
God gives them an operation of deception for them to believe the falsehood.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 does not say, as you intimate, "they heard and knew the truth." They may have heard it but they didn't receive the love of the truth. Only God can give the love of the truth to people.

Your quotation of Romans 1:20 is not about the evangel/gospel. It is about humanity being without excuse that God exists.
I totally disagree with your comments. They are misleading, deceptive and in err.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:28 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryann1256 View Post
Wht this public speaker says is correct, that is the word of God..hell is real and if we dont likewise repent we will go there to hell for eternal..believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved..if anyone reject him he will reject you..that is the word of God..
False witness !

You do not preach the true God, you preach a false satanic god.

In the Hebrew and Greek, Sheol[Hebrew] and Hades,Tartaroo and Gehenna[Greek] is a place of death, darkness & silence. In other words, the grave! But the English word "Hell" means an eternal burning place of agony! But in the original Hebrew/Greek, there is no such word as "hell".

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump! but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:40 PM
 
223 posts, read 247,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
False witness !

You do not preach the true God, you preach a false satanic god.

In the Hebrew and Greek, Sheol[Hebrew] and Hades,Tartaroo and Gehenna[Greek] is a place of death, darkness & silence. In other words, the grave! But the English word "Hell" means an eternal burning place of agony! But in the original Hebrew/Greek, there is no such word as "hell".

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump! but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.
It's NOT GOD that chose the BIBLE translators!! Man chose MAN for the job!!
Satan causes all this confusion and has TWISTED the Prophets writings to our own destruction!! The CHRISTIAN who loves TRUTH and wants to share this TRUTH with others , GOD WILL GIVE THAT PERSON WISDOM TO DISCERN WHAT IS TRUTH AND WHAT IS TWISTED BY THE TRANSLATORS.
John 16 is the KEY to find the TRUTH!!
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:51 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Eternal Torment preached at Baccalaureate

Tonight a public speaker flew in from Atlanta to speak at my daughter's baccalaureate. The main topic was heaven or hell. This guy rubbs elbows with all the famous athletes. He starts off by asking the audience if anyone believe hell is eternal. I said "NO!" But he didn't get a good enough response from the audience so he asked the question again "Does anyone here believe hell is eternal?" and this time I yelled "NO!!!!". Lot's of people turned around and looked right at me. He continued as if nothing was said.
He spent 45 minutes mentally abusing the graduates telling them all about how God is going to eternally torment them in hell if they don't believe in Him. He kept snapping his fingers and saying "every second two people in the world die. Before your head hits the pillow over a hundred thousand people will have died in the world. What are you going to do about it? All those people will go to heaven or hell he said.

After the abuse session I had a word with him in front of my daughter. I asked him, Mark, would your earthly father torture you if you didn't do what he told you to do? He snapped back: "What's your point." So I asked again, very gently, Would your dad build a bonfire in the back yard and torture you in those flames if you didn't do what he told you to do. He replied "No. What's your point." So I asked him if his earthly father is more loving than his heavenly father.

Then I started telling him all about 1 Timothy 2:4-6 how that God will save all mankind because Christ ransomed all. I told him to do a study on the world "ransom" through the whole bible and prove to himself that everyone ransomed had to be freed. He replied, Yea but there is a hell and lots of people are going there. I replied, Mark, what did I just say? I said "God will have all mankind to be saved because Christ ransomed all mankind. He asked, What's the context? I replied "we are to pray for all mankind, for kings and all who are in authority for God will have all mankind to be saved for Christ ransomed all." He asked: Are you a Jehovah's Witness?" I said No. He said: Well there is a hell and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I replied that that hell is Gehenna and it is only for the thousand years. And I said the lake of fire is the second death and that no one suffers in the lake of fire because it is death. He replied, "yea but it is for ever and ever and ever and ever." I replied, No it is just for ever and ever. He replied, well that's eternity isn't it? I said no and I rattled off the Greek for it. So he told me to send him some literature and he'd read it. He said "You can't prove to me it's not eternal." I laughed and pointed my finger right at him and said "I sure can prove it's not eternal!"
I told him, Mark, you are tormented by this. He said "No I'm not." I said of course you are. You are tormented. I told him I used to preach hell and damnation. He said you need to get back to it. I said to just search out the word "ransom" and prove to yourself that all ransomed must be freed.
My daughter was amazed I wouldn't back down from this 6'6 or so tall guy.

Anyway, what book do you think I should send him that you think would really help him?
"The restitution of all things" by Andrew Jukes ... But of course ...

If you can find a copy of it ... If not you could simply print the internet version of it and put it together for him in a pamphlet.

I have read allot on the topic, and that book by far is the best. It doesn't cover all the bases, but it comes darn close!

I think the point is obviously moot though, as people who cling so desperately to the false doctrine of ET do so because they want to believe it is true, regardless of whether or not they pretend to the contrary. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, so if you have faith in the doctrine of ET, you hope that it is true ... Simple fact. Either that or you simply are ignorant of the facts.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-14-2010 at 04:04 PM..
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