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Old 06-10-2010, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Amen! Are there things about God's personal character that one could not share with a three year old? Didn't Jesus say not to prevent the children from coming to him? You know, I think the ET doctrine actually does prevent children from trusting. It did me.

Heartsong
Yes.. we are taught that God is love and loves all the people in the world... red, yellow, black, white.... Then adult church tells us that sinners are doomed to hell.. so much for the love of God!

Such sugar coating... What kind of pretty wrapping paper can you put on eternal burning?
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,567,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Ya know, I think the UR people are going off the deep end.
ET doctrine takes a sometimes dark place (mortal life here) and tries to make things infinitely darker with it's mid-evil brand of "Good News".

T
hat's the deep end many here are recovering from.

Thank God I never fell off that cliff.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:46 AM
 
223 posts, read 247,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Eternal Torment preached at Baccalaureate



After the abuse session I had a word with him in front of my daughter. I asked him, Mark, would your earthly father torture you if you didn't do what he told you to do? He snapped back: "What's your point." So I asked again, very gently, Would your dad build a bonfire in the back yard and torture you in those flames if you didn't do what he told you to do. He replied "No. What's your point." So I asked him if his earthly father is more loving than his heavenly father.



Anyway, what book do you think I should send him that you think would really help him?

Hello Eusebius.

I like'd your reply to him but i would have gone a step further and said the statement about our Earthly father in the public meeting and humilated him in front of the students, i'm sure you would have got a round of aplause!

Heres what i would have said to him in front of ALL the students.

1. How many times have you read and understood John 3: 16??? It ends by saying "PERISH" what does the word mean? Then let him answer with a lot of WAFFLE. Then say to him that the word "PERISH" MEANS what it says!! Perish = NO PAIN!

2. God said that Sodom and Gomorah will burn for ever. Were is the bon fire of Sodom showing on NASA radar?

3. Then tell him to SEARCH on google "THE SOUL THAT SINNETH SHALL DIE" AND SEE WHAT BIBLE VERSE IT BRINGS OUT. THIS WILL MAKE ALL THE STUDENTS LOOK IT UP! THEN HE WOULD BE TO ASHAMED TO MEET THEM AGAIN. He will never again preach that about our GOD and HELL in the way he did.

I hope this helps?

John D Bull

Last edited by JOHNC10; 06-10-2010 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:49 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,222,881 times
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Eusebias....truly,some ppl out there WANT to go to hell.YES i'm serious! they say things like they would never worship God,or any god,period.and that God is arrogant,self-serving..etc..all kinds of nasty things.they arent grateful for even one second that they're alive.much less for all the things God has given them. 'every good gift that you receive comes from My hand'.
so *please don't be naive...hell is for those who truly WANT to be there,for those who outright reject Jesus....and those ppl do exist out there in the world.

Just as you say God would not send ppl to hell...well,He certainly wouldn't make them go to heaven either,if they didn't want to!!!! pls try reading a few blogs out there if you don't believe me...it's true some professed 'unbelievers' talk about God more than believers do!

Last edited by SC122; 06-10-2010 at 12:57 AM..
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
254 posts, read 358,909 times
Reputation: 253
Seriously not appropriate material for the venue.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:00 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,222,881 times
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I agree,mellanieblue.although i don't overall disagree w the message..he was supposed to be offering words of encouragement for the future.it was not the time or place to preach.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,989 times
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Thanks for the link. I haven't heard of that book before. It looks good based on the reviews I read at Amazon.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,387,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
Eusebias....truly,some ppl out there WANT to go to hell.YES i'm serious! they say things like they would never worship God,or any god,period.and that God is arrogant,self-serving..etc..all kinds of nasty things.they arent grateful for even one second that they're alive.much less for all the things God has given them. 'every good gift that you receive comes from My hand'.
so *please don't be naive...hell is for those who truly WANT to be there,for those who outright reject Jesus....and those ppl do exist out there in the world.

Just as you say God would not send ppl to hell...well,He certainly wouldn't make them go to heaven either,if they didn't want to!!!! pls try reading a few atheist blogs if you don't believe me...it's true they talk about God more than beleivers do!
The God that tortures people for eternity is the one they say is "self-serving, arrogant, and all those other things.... That is true and correct IMO

Jesus said:
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. (Luke 6:35)

Now if the MOST HIGH (God, right?) is kind to the ungrateful and wicked... then is your definition of kind... burning people in hell?

Who did Jesus come to save? The already saved? The righteous? The perfect? The whole?

1 Tim. 1:15
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." (Luke 19:10
The word "lost" here is: απολωλος apollumi: to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

So those lost are destroyed FULLY yet Jesus came to seek and save those people.

Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. (Luke 5:31)

Take Jesus' advice:
"But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Matthew 9:13)
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,569,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Thanks for the link. I haven't heard of that book before. It looks good based on the reviews I read at Amazon.
Talbott's 'Inescapable Love of God' is among my faves on UR in Christ.

Heartsong
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,567,579 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
Eusebias....truly,some ppl out there WANT to go to hell.YES i'm serious! they say things like they would never worship God,or any god,period.and that God is arrogant,self-serving..etc..all kinds of nasty things.they arent grateful for even one second that they're alive.much less for all the things God has given them. 'every good gift that you receive comes from My hand'.
so *please don't be naive...hell is for those who truly WANT to be there,for those who outright reject Jesus....and those ppl do exist out there in the world.

Just as you say God would not send ppl to hell...well,He certainly wouldn't make them go to heaven either,if they didn't want to!!!! pls try reading a few blogs out there if you don't believe me...it's true some professed 'unbelievers' talk about God more than believers do!
Well of course, there are many who spout off about things they DON'T believe in. Your argument about people not wanting to go to heaven (and not being forced) because they don't like God seems a pretty good argument on the surface, but...

Would you agree that most people (lost/saved/atheist/Hindu/Muslim - whatever) prefer peace of mind to confusion? Freedom to oppression? Prefer bliss over torment? Prefer health and wholeness over sickness and pain?

Yet so many do the things which (in the end) result in a state of pain and hopelessness etc.

It seems you are expecting those trapped in a prison of spiritual blindness to make a proper informed spiritual decision about their eternity which (if you really consider it fully) is not a reasonable expectation.

I do speak from my perspective as a formerly self consumed, drug using, do whatever feels good, lazy, never finished school, (homeless) bum.

All the preachers sermons didn't help - nor the bible. I railed as the ones you describe above about sitting in the sky singing songs forever to this meanie God who doesn't exist anyway etc. Why? I was in spiritual darkness and was CLUELESS about what they were talking about. It wasn't real too me - it was like a fairytale.

When God made Himself REAL to me it was a no-contest. Irresistible love and peace and joy consumed me. AFTER I saw/understood it became worth all the sacrifice which followed.

So - am I a better, smarter or more godly person for making what was an easy decision AFTER my eyes were opened? Of course not.

This is exactly why Jesus prayed "Father forgive them - they know not what they do". Of course one of them (if they had heard it) might have responded "*********! I know exactly what I'm doing" - but would that make Jesus words false?

People born in prison and who don't know there is anything else do/say funny things.
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