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Old 06-10-2010, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,381,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophialee View Post
Free will is an illusion? LOL. Noooooooo. There is NO POINT in God creating humanity if free will is an illusion.
Tell that to Job. Or Nebuchadnezzar, or Saul/Paul, or a million other people who have found otherwise!
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophialee View Post
Free will is an illusion? LOL. Noooooooo. There is NO POINT in God creating humanity if free will is an illusion.
Definition of Free Will:
free will
n.
  1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
  2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.
Do you make choices independent of circumstances? Or is it those circumstances that force you to make a choice?

There is no such thing as FREE will but there is such a thing as will....

A short study in quantum physics will show you that our choices in this life/world are anything but free... they all come with a price or a consequence and are all dependent on circumstances, fate (if you believe in that), and divine will (if you believe in that).
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
6,772 posts, read 11,587,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Tell that to Job. Or Nebuchadnezzar, or Saul/Paul, or a million other people who have found otherwise!
Hmmm. What makes you think Nebuchadnezzar went to heaven?
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophialee View Post
Hmmm. What makes you think Nebuchadnezzar went to heaven?
What does that have to do with anything? Divine will trumped Nebuchadnezzar's free will. Divine will trumped Pharaoh's free will. Divine will trumped Job's will. Divine will trumped Saul's will... I could go on and on...

The fact is that no one trumps Divine will.. If we were playing Hearts this would make more sense... God is at the top of the food chain so to speak and nothing happens that he doesn't will to happen.

Do you think God wills/wants all men to be saved?
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,381,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophialee View Post
Hmmm. What makes you think Nebuchadnezzar went to heaven?

What exactly do you mean by heaven? The dead have not risen to the first resurrection yet.

These are the words of Nebuchadnezzar, who, by the way, was a very wicked and vile man!

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honored him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:50 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,417 posts, read 29,545,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
What exactly do you mean by heaven? The dead have not risen to the first resurrection yet.

These are the words of Nebuchadnezzar, who, by the way, was a very wicked and vile man!

Daniel 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honored him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation.
Despite Nebuchadnezzar's recognition that God exist and works great miracles, in 4:30 we see that he still did not acknowledge God as his Lord.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,381,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Despite Nebuchadnezzar's recognition that God exist and works great miracles, in 4:30 we see that he still did not acknowledge God as his Lord.

My verse is Daniel 4:34, not 4:30!!

Daniel 4:30: As he looked out across the city, he said, 'Look at this great city of Babylon! By my own mighty power, I have built this beautiful city as my royal residence to display my majestic splendor.'


Daniel 4:31: The words were still on his lips when a voice came from heaven, "This is what is decreed for you, King Nebuchadnezzar: Your royal authority has been taken from you.

Daniel 4:32: You will be driven away from people and will live with the wild animals; you will eat grass like cattle. Seven times will pass by for you until you acknowledge that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes."

Daniel 4:33: That same hour the judgment was fulfilled, and Nebuchadnezzar was driven from human society. He ate grass like a cow, and he was drenched with the dew of heaven. He lived this way until his hair was as long as eagles' feathers and his nails were like birds' claws.

Daniel 4:34: At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever. His dominion is an eternal dominion; his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:48 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,434,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophialee View Post
How is it the biggest crock ever? It's a lie. It's exactly what Satan wants people to believe, right next to believing there is no God at all.
But sophialee, God specifically tells us to teach that God will save all mankind and is the Saviour of all mankind (see 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 4:10,11 concentrating on verse 11).

So how can we be disobedient to this? So, rather than "it's exactly what Satan wants people to believe" it is actually what God wants people to believe.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,494 posts, read 31,888,415 times
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1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say God WILL save all mankind.

Is there no end to the cherry picking, misrepresenting and twisting the word of God?

It saddens me to see so many people deliberatly trying to lead people away from the truth of God.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:22 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,434,483 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
1 Timothy 2:4-6 does not say God WILL save all mankind.

Is there no end to the cherry picking, misrepresenting and twisting the word of God?

It saddens me to see so many people deliberatly trying to lead people away from the truth of God.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
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