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Old 06-10-2010, 04:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Jesus' teaching about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit proves that not all will be saved:

No, it does not, because some sin requires that you suffer the consequenses. Once you pay the price, no more is due and the offense is not held against you.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
WHAT is the ONLY thing in this Universe that is ETERNAL?


First of all, we have FAITH that there is a God. We have FAITH that He is eternal and had NO beginning, and He will have no ending.

We know WE had a beginning and we have FAITH that we will have immortality, NOT eternal life.

"Everlasting" and "forever" is used throughout the Bible to mean the OPPOSITE of what we think it means. You CANNOT use forever and ever to mean eternal. That makes absolutely no sense.

Forever and ever: If forever means forever than you don't need the extra ever. It is talking about a time that will end.

The rest of the post is from the Tentmaker site.Hell is Leaving the Bible Forever</b></font>


Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezek. 16:53-55).

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17).


The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until-- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53).


Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27 --until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6).


An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth generation (Deut. 23:3):


Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered" Hab. 3 3:6).


The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).


Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.


The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until--Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb. 4:8,9).


The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).




The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual"-- until-- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13).


God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);



Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer. 25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer. 49:39).


"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).


Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).


So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until-- and His church confiscate the "strong man's" booty, setting the captives free so God becomes all in all (Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor. 15:24-28).


The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
God is now calling out "a people for His name"--an "elect" or chosen priesthood people who will represent and reflect His loving nature.



Many are called and few are chosen--until--the small chosen priesthood people, by the Spirit, restore "David's tabernacle" so ALL mankind may inquire of the Lord. Thus we see that the church is the first-born, the beginning--until--in ALL (later born new creatures in Christ) our Lord will have supremacy (Amos 9:11-12, Matt. 22:14, Acts 15:14-18, Eph. 3:15, Col. 1 18).




All manner of sin will be forgiven in this AGE as well as in the AGE (not eternity) to come, except blasphemy against God's Spirit-until--such blasphemy finds pardon in the fullness of the times (or ages) when God unites all in Christ. For the Lord does not retain His anger forever because He delights in mercy (Matt. 12:32; 18:11,21-22, Eph. 1:9-11, Rev. 4:11; 5:13, Mic. 7:18-20).


God's wrath has come upon Israel "to the uttermost" (1 Thess. 2:16). So there is a gulf between "the rich man in purple" (Royal Covenant "Son", Israel) and the saved gentiles (Lazarus) which no man can cross--until--Christ Himself crosses it to bring His promised restoration. For again, Scripture promises that ALL Israel will be saved (Jer. 50:5, Luke 16:19-26, John 12:32, Romans 11:26-29).


Christ's fallen apostle, Judas, will be restored just as surely as fallen Israel (of which he is a member) will be restored. For the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable, and He has purposed to unite all in Christ. For Scripture assures us that He who calls us is 'faithful". He will surely perform it. So Judas is lost-until--the Lord restores Him (John 15:16, 1 Thess. 5:24).


So, Christ will say to unrighteous NATIONS, "Depart from Me into 'everlasting' fire." And these nations will go away into "everlasting" (original language: age-lasting) punishment or pruning, that is--until--by God's severe mercy shown in judgment, ALL nations He has made glorify and worship Him. Thus God will fulfill His covenant with Abraham that in Christ all the families of ALL the nations will be BLESSED (Gen. 12:3, Ps. 62:12, 67:4, 86:9, Matt. 25:41,46). For according to Paul (Gal. 3:8), God's covenant with Abraham means that ALL will be justified and set right with God. So all flesh will bless His name forever and ever (Ps. 145:21).


Therefore, ALL scriptural references that speak of everlasting fire or judgment MUST be understood in light of God's (Love's) clearly expressed heart, promise, desire, purpose and will. They ARE "everlasting"; that is, they are continuous and on-going--until--God's judgments serve to accomplish His unchanging will and purpose to unite ALL creation in Christ. (Gen. 12:3, Romans 4:13, Heb. 6:17).


Truly God's judgments are in the earth-until-mercy shall triumph over those judgments. (James 2:13)
The Bible says that we will have eternal (aion) life and it says God is eternal (aion). Either aion means eternal or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

Ephesians 3:21 "to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever (aion) and ever (aion) Amen."

1 John 5:11 "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal (aion) life, and this life is in his Son."

1 Tim 1:17 "Now to the eternal (aion) king, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever (aion) and ever (aion)! Amen."

You wrote, "So, Christ will say to unrighteous NATIONS, "Depart from Me into 'everlasting' fire." And these nations will go away into "everlasting" (original language: age-lasting) punishment or pruning, that is--until--by God's severe mercy shown in judgment, ALL nations He has made glorify and worship Him."

If everlasting in Matthew 25:41 means "age-lasting" then God being everlasting in Romans 16:26 means "age-lasting" because it's from the same Greek word aionios #166. What you are trying to do doesn't add up.

Actually the Bible says only God is immortal not us.

1 Timothy 6:13-16 "In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen."

Last edited by CantWait2Leave; 06-10-2010 at 05:37 PM..
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,391,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
The Bible says that we will have eternal (aion) life and it says God is eternal (aion). Either aion means eternal or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

You wrote, "So, Christ will say to unrighteous NATIONS, "Depart from Me into 'everlasting' fire." And these nations will go away into "everlasting" (original language: age-lasting) punishment or pruning, that is--until--by God's severe mercy shown in judgment, ALL nations He has made glorify and worship Him."

If everlasting in Matthew 25:41 means "age-lasting" then God being everlasting in Romans 16:26 means "age-lasting" because it's from the same Greek word aionios #166. What you are trying to do doesn't add up.

Actually the Bible says only God is immortal not us.

1 Timothy 6:13-16 "In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own timeóGod, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen."
But, PAUL says we are to PUT immortality ON. Do you believe you are eternal? You are telling me you have NO beginning and NO end?

NOT a SINGLE one of us has eternal life. That makes NO sense whatsoever. We will become immortal.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,416,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
But, PAUL says we are to PUT immortality ON. Do you believe you are eternal? You are telling me you have NO beginning and NO end?

NOT a SINGLE one of us has eternal life. That makes NO sense whatsoever. We will become immortal.
In addition... Jesus defines ETERNAL LIFE as knowing GOD (who is eternal) and his son.

It is not defined as living eternally, but knowing God.

Therefore by Christ's own definition eternal life is not about duration of life at all, but quality of life.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,694,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
But, PAUL says we are to PUT immortality ON. Do you believe you are eternal? You are telling me you have NO beginning and NO end?

NOT a SINGLE one of us has eternal life. That makes NO sense whatsoever. We will become immortal.
The Bible says otherwise. The word aion speaks for itself.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
The Bible says otherwise. The word aion speaks for itself.
Give me the definition of "eternal."

I Corinthians 15:53: For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,694,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Tell me what "eternal" means.....
I think you can figure that one out on your own. Don't try to twist what eternal means.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,391,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
I think you can figure that one out on your own. Don't try to twist what eternal means.

I am not trying to twist what eternal means, CantWait2Leave. "Eternal" means "eternal." That's my point! NO beginning, and NO ending.

WE are not eternal, and we CANNOT have eternal life. That word should never be used in relation to anything other than God. (Like katjonjj said, we can HAVE GOD who is eternal life...)

You did read the Corinthians verse I posted that says we have to PUT ON immortality, right?
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:59 PM
 
702 posts, read 813,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
No, it does not, because some sin requires that you suffer the consequenses. Once you pay the price, no more is due and the offense is not held against you.
Phazelwood, I find it very interesting that you seem so unwilling to tackle my analyses of those texts directly. Since you are obviously unwilling even to consider those, and insist on making assertion after assertion, any further interaction with you would be pointless. When you are willing to have a dialogue about this by responding directly to what I say, I will be happy to discuss this.

I invite anyone else to respond to my two posts directly. They prove that not all will be forgiven and that there will be an everlasting punishment.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:59 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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John 3:16 " For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have ETERNAL life".
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