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Old 06-10-2010, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,395,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Yes, I did and they were all in the OT (Hebrew). You wrote that everlasting is used incorrectly throughout the entire Bible. This isn't true which is why I wrote:

"If everlasting in Matthew 25:41 means "age-lasting" then God being everlasting in Romans 16:26 means "age-lasting" because it's from the same Greek word aionios #166. What you are trying to do doesn't add up."

I have to go do some errands. I'll be back later.
He IS the God of the ages!

What I was trying to do was show how "everlasting" was used in the Bible, which you should understand by now.

The translators were doing the best they could for the most part (although I have found that they INTENTIONALLY mistranslated to keep some of their doctrines in place).

Anyhow, why would you think the way they used "everlasting" in the New Testament would change from the way they used it in the Old?

The BIG PICTURE is the reconciliation of ALL back to God. How does this work? There are PLENTY of verses that speak of these things. Most are overlooked by tradition because they don't fit in the traditional boxes that men have created.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,395,468 times
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Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
To conclude this, you have to ignore the plain truth of John 4. Clearly there Jesus teaches that there is life without end--not a temporary life, but an everlasting one.
If you would only read my posts. I have already said that.......Please, people READ!

YES! There is life without end. You have to PUT ON immortality! Thank goodness!

Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:47 PM
 
702 posts, read 814,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
If you would only read my posts. I have already said that.......Please, people READ! I am not doing this for my health......
Yes, I did catch what you said. I edited my last post to reflect that. But I would also add that believers have eternal life now: "Whoever believes in the Son has [present tense] eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:36)
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,395,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Yes, I did catch what you said. I edited my last post to reflect that. But I would also add that believers have eternal life now: "Whoever believes in the Son has [present tense] eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:36)
We HAVE "eternal life." That is, we have GOD who is eternal life. Others are still in the dark under God's "wrath." Look around if you don't believe me. Still pretty chaotic down here.

We are ALL still in decaying bodies. We have NOT put on immortality! At least, I haven't.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,395,468 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Yes, I did and they were all in the OT (Hebrew). You wrote that everlasting is used incorrectly throughout the entire Bible. This isn't true which is why I wrote:

"If everlasting in Matthew 25:41 means "age-lasting" then God being everlasting in Romans 16:26 means "age-lasting" because it's from the same Greek word aionios #166. What you are trying to do doesn't add up."

I have to go do some errands. I'll be back later.
Okay. Be safe.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,425,712 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Yes, I did and they were all in the OT (Hebrew). You wrote that everlasting is used incorrectly throughout the entire Bible. This isn't true which is why I wrote:

"If everlasting in Matthew 25:41 means "age-lasting" then God being everlasting in Romans 16:26 means "age-lasting" because it's from the same Greek word aionios #166. What you are trying to do doesn't add up."

I have to go do some errands. I'll be back later.
"It will take an eternity to get to work today"

Did I use eternity correctly?

Yes.. I did... BUT does it mean forever and ever without end? No... I am using it from a human perspective meaning A VERY LONG TIME.

Same with what is being said about the HUMAN usage of eternity in scripture. It denotes a very long time in most cases. HOWEVER, eternal life is defined by Jesus... if you don't like the way he used the word, well... I guess that ends the discussion.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,662 posts, read 1,720,818 times
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Quote:
If everlasting in Matthew 25:41 means "age-lasting" then God being everlasting in Romans 16:26 means "age-lasting" because it's from the same Greek word aionios #166. What you are trying to do doesn't add up.
in Romans 16:25, times that have already have passed by are also called aionios, do you homework!

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel, and the proclaiming of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery having been kept unvoiced during eternal (aionios) times, but now has been made plain, and by prophetic Scriptures, according to the commandment of the everlasting (aionios) God, made known for obedience of faith to all the nations; ... (Green's literal)

these eternal times had an end and were therefore not endless, also see this:

Quote:
f it‘s now possible to demonstrate that the Scripture obviously used the words for "eternal" and "eternity" in the same sentence once applied to something that by its nature can only thought to be infinite and the other time on something that by its nature can never be thought infinite, then Augustine’s conclusion can only be considered as unscriptural.

Let’s look upon two Bible words, the one is written in Romans 16:25-26, …according to the revelation of the mystery having been kept unvoiced during eternal (aiōnios) times, but now has been made plain, and by prophetic Scriptures, according to the commandment of the eternal (aiōnios) God…

There is no need for scholarliness to recognize that times in their nature can never be infinite or eternal, but they are obvious with the same word designated that is used to denote the eternal God. On the other hand no one needs to prove that God in his nature can only thought of being infinite.

If Augustine had used the same logic here as in Matthew 25:46, then he could have said, if the times called eternal here were not infinite - then God called eternal here is not infinite too - a blatant fallacy.

We have a similar example in Titus 1:2 (also 2Tim 1:9) …on hope of eternal (aiōnios) life which the God who does not lie promised before eternal (aiōnios) timesIf there is a linguistic term that is fundamentally different from infinity, then it is "time" or "times". Nevertheless are they called "eternal" (aiōnios), a striking proof that this adjective itself is not suitable to denote infinity.

All adjectives that refer to God and His life get their true meaning from there, but not the way round. Wherever the word translated "eternal" (Greek: aiōnios - aeonian or age-long), refers to creature, men or mere human conditions or circumstances it never has the sense of infinity cause nothing creatural can be thought of being infinite, unless it partook in the divine nature of divine life and entity.
conservative Prof. Stroeter on the subject of everlasting punishment

Quote:
The Bible says otherwise. The word aion speaks for itself.
does it? - I cannot imagine a more ambiguous word, also see here
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:48 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,703,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Phazelwood, I find it very interesting that you seem so unwilling to tackle my analyses of those texts directly. Since you are obviously unwilling even to consider those, and insist on making assertion after assertion, any further interaction with you would be pointless. When you are willing to have a dialogue about this by responding directly to what I say, I will be happy to discuss this.

I invite anyone else to respond to my two posts directly. They prove that not all will be forgiven and that there will be an everlasting punishment.

I haven't needed to get to that point, I pointed out that your post on blasphemy doesn't prove what you say it does and explained why.

A verse you say is a clear proof text about eternal damnation that doesn't even say eternal damnation in the text isn't worth the effort to bother with.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:52 AM
 
702 posts, read 814,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
We HAVE "eternal life." That is, we have GOD who is eternal life. Others are still in the dark under God's "wrath." Look around if you don't believe me. Still pretty chaotic down here.

We are ALL still in decaying bodies. We have NOT put on immortality! At least, I haven't.
I haven't either. But I wonder about the way you insist on reinterpreting the phrase "We have eternal life" as "We have God who is eternal life." There is truth to the latter statement, but why the need to rephrase the former? We have eternal life if we believe. Period. That life is without end. It is something besides God that the Scriptures describe as being without end.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:58 AM
 
702 posts, read 814,501 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Quote:
I invite anyone else to respond to my two posts directly. They prove that not all will be forgiven and that there will be an everlasting punishment.
Everlasting punishment, yes? How is everlasting used in the Bible. Old Testament AND New?
What words in Hebrew/Greek are you talking about, and which particular passages?
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