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Old 06-12-2010, 03:29 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,114,658 times
Reputation: 866

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Hell is real. All who die without Christ will spend eternity there. The time for forgiveness ends at the point of physical death. You flat out reject what Jesus Himself said about hell. He said it Himself that He will be the judge who orders the unbeliever into the lake of fire. You don't want to believe it because it upsets the false image you have of God.

And typical of uni's, you twist and distort things to your own purpose. Your claim that my stance is that we should curse, condemn and never forgive because I defend the truth concerning eternal condemnation of the unbeliever, is asinine.

Your idea of salvation is very selfish, Mike.
The time for forgiveness ends??? Where's THAT in scripture???
What Jesus do you follow?
My Jesus said, "I judge no one."

The mercy of the Lord endureth forever.

Not even a mother would do what your god does! And you call him a god of love?????

Apparently your god's hand is too short that it cannot save. He has done all he can, he is tired, angry and resentful. He has failed. He has "missed the mark." This is my impression of the god you describe.
But it is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is not the One who calls things that are not as though they were. It is not the Alpha and Omega. It is not the Almighty God who came to save the world, and who declared, "It is finished."

Blessings to you,
brian

Last edited by ahigherway; 06-12-2010 at 03:50 AM..
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:24 AM
 
223 posts, read 248,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The English word 'destroy' is translated from the Greek word APOLLUMI. It does not mean to destroy in the sense of cessation of existence. It refers to a loss of well being. It means to uttery ruin, to render eternally useless.

Apollumi is the word that Jesus used in Matthew 10:28 when He spoke of those thrown into Gehenna-the lake of fire. HELL. It is the place of everlasting torment where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:42 It is the place where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:48.

And yes. It says the same thing in the original Greek.
Hi Mike.

Lets get something clear here plz..

The Word PERISH mentioned in the Gospel of John 3: 16 & Ezek 18: 20 You believe does NOT mean total destruction of the lost body and soul correct?

I believe in a mercyful GOD who has the POWER to make the lost bodies and soul perish in an instant or in a single day or month. i dont believe in a god that will allow the lost souls to burn for eternity.

Do you believe the souls of Sodom are still frying now or will they fry in the future for eternity while you are having a jolly time in heaven's paradise?

The majority believe in eternal hell's fire for the lost and a FEW dont. It's interesting that the Bible says MANY are called and a FEW are chosen. It is very dangerous to paint a wrong picture about God's MERCY and LOVE to the human race. Many people have rejected GOD and his plan of SALVATION because God's MERCY has been tarnished by people who preach eternal hell fires.

I'd rather be wrong than take a chance and make comments like what the majority make on here about God's MERCY.
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,114,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNC10 View Post

The majority believe in eternal hell's fire for the lost and a FEW dont. It's interesting that the Bible says MANY are called and a FEW are chosen.
YES. Eternal hell is (unfortunately) a VERY popular doctrine, esp in America. Some pagan traditions have the same "God's gonna get ya!"-type of religion. And it actually makes the believers feel special. I believe Christianity has been polluted by these same pagan traditions. Same with the concept of the Trinity.
The Jews have no doctrine of hell, no concept of a trinity. I think they are right.

Loving one's enemy, even unto death. THAT, however, is a message that few will hear.

Wrath, by the way, is a fruit of the flesh, NOT of the Spirit.

Mike555, I wish you well, even though we do not agree. Disagree is part of life, and I accept it. Someday, we will ALL see eye-to-eye, I do believe!

Enough said by me on this thread.
Blessings to all,
brian
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:23 AM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Your idea of salvation is very selfish, Mike.
The time for forgiveness ends??? Where's THAT in scripture???
What Jesus do you follow?
My Jesus said, "I judge no one."

The mercy of the Lord endureth forever.

Not even a mother would do what your god does! And you call him a god of love?????

Apparently your god's hand is too short that it cannot save. He has done all he can, he is tired, angry and resentful. He has failed. He has "missed the mark." This is my impression of the god you describe.
But it is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is not the One who calls things that are not as though they were. It is not the Alpha and Omega. It is not the Almighty God who came to save the world, and who declared, "It is finished."

Blessings to you,
brian
It isn't MY idea of salvation. I didn't come up with it. It is God's policy.

Sin was judged at the cross. But the unbelievers sins are not forgiven until he believes in Christ for salvation. If he never believes in Christ then his sins are never forgiven and he dies in his sins. As Christ said in John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.''

Jesus came as Savior the first time. At His second Advent, He comes as judge. Here is Jesus as judge.

Matthew 7:23 ''And then I will declare to them, ''I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

And here is what it means to depart from Jesus, and here He is again as judge...

Matthew 25:41 This is Jesus speaking of Himself.''Then He will also say to those on His left, ''Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''

And here is Jesus sitting on the Great White throne in final judgment of all who rejected Him as Savior...

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12) And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them (this is the resurrection of the unbeliever out of 'Torments' in Hades); and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14) And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15) And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 7:23 and 25:41 are Christ at His second Advent at the end of the Tribulation. Revelation 20:11-15 is the Great White throne judgment at the end of the Millennium.

You talk about YOUR God. You don't know who God is at all. You reject all the Scriptures in His written word that tell in no uncertain terms that those who die without Christ will be separated from Him forever.

Your image of God is contradictory to His revelation of Himself. You reject His holiness and turn Him into a sugar daddy, and impugn His character in the doing of it.

It would be in your best interests to reexamine your beliefs and get in line with what the word of God has revealed about God.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:33 AM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNC10 View Post
Hi Mike.

Lets get something clear here plz..

The Word PERISH mentioned in the Gospel of John 3: 16 & Ezek 18: 20 You believe does NOT mean total destruction of the lost body and soul correct?

I believe in a mercyful GOD who has the POWER to make the lost bodies and soul perish in an instant or in a single day or month. i dont believe in a god that will allow the lost souls to burn for eternity.

Do you believe the souls of Sodom are still frying now or will they fry in the future for eternity while you are having a jolly time in heaven's paradise?
You already asked that, and I already answered it.

Quote:

The majority believe in eternal hell's fire for the lost and a FEW dont. It's interesting that the Bible says MANY are called and a FEW are chosen. It is very dangerous to paint a wrong picture about God's MERCY and LOVE to the human race. Many people have rejected GOD and his plan of SALVATION because God's MERCY has been tarnished by people who preach eternal hell fires.

I'd rather be wrong than take a chance and make comments like what the majority make on here about God's MERCY.
And I prefer to stand in the truth of God's word.

Your beliefs are in contradiction to the word of God and therefore don't amount to a hill of beans. I gave you the meaning of Apollumi-perish-destroy. Research it. Annhilationism is a heresy.

Final comment.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,564,856 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Your beliefs are in contradiction to the word of God and therefore don't amount to a hill of beans.
Mike - we find contradictions in scripture to what you post too, but don't slam you for it.

Quote:
Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.
Fruit, it does the Body (of Christ) good.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,757,325 times
Reputation: 58198
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Mike - we find contradictions in scripture to what you post too, but don't slam you for it.


Fruit, it does the Body (of Christ) good.
Amen Elmer.....It is my prayer that the ETer's would stop and think about what it is they are teaching. It's a horrendous belief and as much scriptural support as they think they can provide for it, UR has just as much if not more scriptural support against it. That was the point of the thread.....to make people think instead of just spewing out doctrine like they've been taught to do. Think and study, look at it with new eyes and heart, instead of the robotic responses we see here. Very sad.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:35 AM
 
223 posts, read 248,023 times
Reputation: 19
I just hope and pray that the TRUTH about God's MERCY is NOT eternal FRYING for the lost but ETERNAL SEPERATION from GOD, JESUS and the SAVED saints. [lost perish in fire John 3: 16]

I also hope that NOT ONE soul has REJECTED GOD because of their beliefs in a GOD that will FRY the lost for ever & for ever.

I dont like to preach or teach damnation concerning the lost to people or FRIENDS. I much prefer to show the MERCIFULL side of GOD and HIS unique plan of SALVATION/redemtion of the shed BLOOD of his SON at the CROSS for our ATONEMENT.


YouTube - I've Been Redeemed


YouTube - Bought By the Blood of the Lamb



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2NzLqpod0I&feature=fvw


YouTube - Bought By the Blood of the Lamb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2NzLqpod0I&feature=fvw
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:27 AM
 
702 posts, read 812,638 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNC10 View Post
I dont like to preach or teach damnation concerning the lost to people or FRIENDS. I much prefer to show the MERCIFULL side of GOD and HIS unique plan of SALVATION/redemtion of the shed BLOOD of his SON at the CROSS for our ATONEMENT.
That needs to be preached, but leaving out damnation actually cheapens Christ's anti-sin, redemptive work on the cross and, hence, God's love and mercy. Damnation shows the heinousness of sin because it is the response of an ineffably holy, just God to that sin. God doesn't just slap people on the wrist for sin; his response (eventually) is one of severity and holy wrath (Romans 11:22). For this reason, God's response to Christ on the cross was not light, but rather one of complete abandonment and wrath because Jesus was made to be sin (Matthew 27:46, 2 Cor. 5:21). If we omit damnation from the message, however, we make sin appear as a minor offense, which then makes Christ's suffering appear as a minor punishment. Consequently, Christ's work is made less vital than it really was.

Wrath, holiness, justice, mercy, love and grace are all bound up together inseparably at the cross. When one or more of these is left out or deemphasized, the others are cheapened.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,114,658 times
Reputation: 866
Mike555,
my apologies to you if i offended you.
Peace and many blessings,
brian
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