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Old 06-12-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,648,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by python87 View Post
Maybe I am just interested in good discussion, learning more and having my ideas challenged?
That would be an illogical and irrational choice in light of embracing the fact that you have but only this life. Hence the logical conclusion is that you are not sold on that belief.

Quote:
I am not saying that this world is all there is. I am just saying that this is possibility. One of many. I am not exactly Atheist, either.
Then the logical and rational conclusion is that your an Agnostic. Which is quite fine.

I'm a universalist which is a very rational and logical thought out belief system. As a Universalist I believe that God can only save everyone. Any other conclusion is to deny the God given logic and reason we are given in the course of thorough analysis.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:11 AM
 
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Jesus told only ONE of the two thieves on the crosses that day that he would be in paradise with Him.ONLY ONE....the one who accepted Him!
Does that mean the other guy didn't make it? You bet it did!
Jesus descended into hell for a reason,because it is REAL,and to keep those who accept Him out of it!
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,591,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
Jesus told only ONE of the two thieves on the crosses that day that he would be in paradise with Him.ONLY ONE....the one who accepted Him!
Does that mean the other guy didn't make it? You bet it did!
Jesus descended into hell for a reason,because it is REAL,and to keep those who accept Him out of it!
I believe those two on the cross next to Jesus are symbolic of the two sons bound up in us - one a prodigal son of God, the other a son of perdition. God must separate those two. One is going to perish, the other will dwell with God. The scripture says that we are BY NATURE - the children of wrath. The cross is for everyone - it is the only way. If you never have been shown the son of perdition that is within you - you're in for an uncomfortable revelation.

Heartsong
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:22 AM
 
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I don't think so...I think the 2 thieves were literally 2 thieves.As most victims of the cross(unlike Jesus,whom had already given up His spirit),they had to have their legs broken to hasten their death.That's pretty literal.(I don't care to debate thanks,but I do appreciate your viewpoint).
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,591,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
I don't think so...I think the 2 thieves were literally 2 thieves.As most victims of the cross(unlike Jesus,whom had already given up His spirit),they had to have their legs broken to hasten their death.That's pretty literal.(I don't care to debate thanks,but I do appreciate your viewpoint).
They certainly may have been literally two thieves. But the things recorded in the scriptures are always there with layers of meaning. One thief represented one who is humble before God. The other thief represents the sin nature. The seed of Christ has been planted by God in every man. If everyone "accepted/received" Christ at the same time, how could God form character and virtue in any of us? If everyone were already in perfect harmony, how could we LEARN to have MERCY, HOPE, etc.??? That is why not all are saved in this lifetime.

Heartsong
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,656 posts, read 1,718,139 times
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I can people people thinking that "good people" should get to go to heaven but do UR belivers think we will be up there with Hitler, serial killers and child kilers? That is the part I don't get.
the matter that murderers will be in heaven is not unique to universalism, did not missionaries evangelize former cannibals? - so there will be former cannibals in heaven, do people not evangelize in prisons? - so there will be former murderers and rapists in heaven wether universalism is true or not; as forgiveness is a cornerstone of Christian doctrine, how can this be used as an argument against universalism?
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:58 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,485,314 times
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Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I can people people thinking that "good people" should get to go to heaven but do UR belivers think we will be up there with Hitler, serial killers and child kilers? That is the part I don't get.
Do you think we will be up in heaven with the likes of the apostle Paul who was a murderer of Christians?
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