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Old 06-11-2010, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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We don't throw out the baby with the bathwater so why believe in a doctrine like ETERNAL TORMENT that preaches a God that does that very thing?

If God is ALMIGHTY then SURELY He can remove sin from anyone and everyone. He should have to throw out the man along with his sin when He can just remove the sin.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
We don't throw out the baby with the bathwater so why believe in a doctrine like ETERNAL TORMENT that preaches a God that does that very thing?

If God is ALMIGHTY then SURELY He can remove sin from anyone and everyone. He should have to throw out the man along with his sin when He can just remove the sin.
Yes, He surely can, but that's not the point. Just because God can do something does not mean He will. We cannot just blindly assume He has chosen to do what you imply, however wonderful that doctrine may seem to be. The question ought to be: has He chosen to remove sin from anyone and everyone, or not? Where does it CLEARLY say so in the Bible?
And....we have kicked this poor dead horse around for months now on multiple threads...this topic is really getting kinda old...

Bud
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Yes, He surely can, but that's not the point. Just because God can do something does not mean He will. We cannot just blindly assume He has chosen to do what you imply, however wonderful that doctrine may seem to be. The question ought to be: has He chosen to remove sin from anyone and everyone, or not? Where does it CLEARLY say so in the Bible?
And....we have kicked this poor dead horse around for months now on multiple threads...this topic is really getting kinda old...

Bud
JUST BECAUSE HE WANTS TO DOESN'T MEAN HE WILL?

I am a DIVA of sorts and like to get what I want (first born, type A personality) and you are saying that God can't even get what HE wants?

Do you think Christ died for ALL sin or just some?

I think he gets what he wants and he wants all men to be saved. He wants all his creation to be close to him and know him.

Don't you think that?

The bible clearly states that God will do his pleasure, accomplish his desire, and wants all men to be saved.

See... Isaiah 55:11, Isaiah 45:23, Isaiah 46:10 and that is just some random verses in Isaiah that proclaim God will accomplish what he desires....

How can you be so blind as to not see that God is the ONLY one who gets EVERYTHING he desires. His divine will trumps human "free" will.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:25 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,847 times
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Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
We cannot just blindly assume He has chosen to do what you imply, however wonderful that doctrine may seem to be.
It's strange that you think a doctrine could be more wonderful than God's plan, the God whose name is Wonderful.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
It's strange that you think a doctrine could be more wonderful than God's plan, the God whose name is Wonderful.
Yep, one does not need Jesus. Jesus is just a shortcut. But everyone will be saved. Jesus just makes it happen faster for some. No one is lost, despite what the Bible says.

Mormonism and Purgatory.

New Age theology.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:11 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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I can people people thinking that "good people" should get to go to heaven but do UR belivers think we will be up there with Hitler, serial killers and child kilers? That is the part I don't get.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,641,607 times
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Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I can people people thinking that "good people" should get to go to heaven but do UR belivers think we will be up there with Hitler, serial killers and child kilers? That is the part I don't get.
No, nobody will be saved with killers. Hitler will no longer be known as a killer when he is saved. God is ABLE, WILLING and READY, and has even purposed to remove sin from ALL sinners. There seems to be a component of some people that believe hey were
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I can people people thinking that "good people" should get to go to heaven but do UR belivers think we will be up there with Hitler, serial killers and child kilers? That is the part I don't get.
Think of it this way: A man saves another man from stubbing his toe on a rock... not really impressive... but a man saves another man from drowning in a lake... kinda impressive... Now what about a man who saves another man from a car about to blow up... more impressive!

The same with God.. If a good man is saved.. well.... YAY! but not terribly impressive. BUT if a serial killer is saved then that is impressive... HITLER being saved and humble before God shows that God can save even the worst of sinners...

Didn't Paul label himself the worst of sinners and yet he was impressed that God saved him.

Does that make sense?

The worst punishment for Hitler would be to love others and serve them.... IMO.

Therefore if you see Hitler in heaven wouldn't you be in awe? I know I would! and if God can conform even Hitler into his image then well, I know God is most powerful!
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,123,362 times
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"Mercy rejoiceth over judgment!"
As condemnation came to all through Adam, so now Life has been extended to all through Christ Jesus! THIS is the Gospel which we preach.

Blessings!
brian
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,641,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Yep, one does not need Jesus. Jesus is just a shortcut. But everyone will be saved. Jesus just makes it happen faster for some. No one is lost, despite what the Bible says.

Mormonism and Purgatory.

New Age theology.
No, Jesus is the path to righteousness for ALL. EVERYONE. Everyone will be saved by Jesus Christ. Jesus came to destroy sin. That was His purpose. He did NOT come to move sinners to a location called Hell where they will be enslaved to rebellion against Him for the rest of Eternity (what mainstream Hell teaches).

Jesus therefore must ERADICATE Sin itself to accomplish His purpose. Anything short of that would be failure. Think about that. If Jesus Christ fails to remove sin from anyone - it means FAILURE.

The teaching of eternal torment teaches that SINNERS go there and they are known as SINNERS for the rest of eternity. Well if they are sinners then they have SIN. And if they have sin then that means Christ failed. That is what Eternal Torment preaches - it preaches the failure of Jesus Christ - this is a teaching that is blasphemy (to hold cheap).

So anyone that is preaching that we can be saved WITHOUT Christ is NOT preaching the Gospel, just as anyone that is preaching that Christ will not remove the sins from EVERYONE is also is NOT preaching the Gospel.
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