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Old 09-07-2013, 08:42 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,966,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
Even in fundamental Christianity. You have Calvinist against Armenian. Both claim to be from God. Both claim to be correct, chosen,elected. But only one of them can be wrong, or both. But both cannot be right.
Actually....it's "Arminian". Armenian means you're from Armenia.

And it's Calvinists that say we are predestined and chosen--as scripture indicates in Ephesians 1, Romans 8-9. I agree with what the scripture says regarding it. Having said that, I would not have a problem with calling an Arminian "brother". It is not a doctrine worth dividing over.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,547 posts, read 6,995,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Actually....it's "Arminian". Armenian means you're from Armenia.

And it's Calvinists that say we are predestined and chosen--as scripture indicates in Ephesians 1, Romans 8-9. I agree with what the scripture says regarding it. Having said that, I would not have a problem with calling an Arminian "brother". It is not a doctrine worth dividing over.
Yes, it's just a question of what is meant by predestined, a part of a general plan, or individually as a form of micromanagement.


As to the OP Prince is simple "prosperity gospel" dressed up as "grace" with a big dose of OSAS. Don't think that he is in it for the money, though (of course he has all the money he wants), he is in it for the feeling of power he gets from directing the minds of others through his rhetorical tricks in support of his specious reasoning. He LIKES playig to an audience just like any other entertainer, and he's good at it.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:27 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,966,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Yes, it's just a question of what is meant by predestined, a part of a general plan, or individually as a form of micromanagement.


As to the OP Prince is simple "prosperity gospel" dressed up as "grace" with a big dose of OSAS. Don't think that he is in it for the money, though (of course he has all the money he wants), he is in it for the feeling of power he gets from directing the minds of others through his rhetorical tricks in support of his specious reasoning. He LIKES playig to an audience just like any other entertainer, and he's good at it.
You're right, actually. Yes...I should have mentioned that. I've had other pastors tell me that Ephesians 1 indicates that we are called to a particular ministry or way of life rather than for salvation. I don't see it that way, of course....but again--it's not worth dividing over, in my mind.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:49 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,550,724 times
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Every person on earth is in error and has faults - filter the message you hear with what the Spirit is saying, and shelve what you don't understand and cast down what is against the knowledge of Christ.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:31 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,730,063 times
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Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
Actually he rejected a high salary offered to him. Why do you feel this way about him? Have you ever heard him preach even once?
He has a acknowledged making 50000 dollars a month.

And yes I have seen him on television. He turns my stomach with his swarmy delivery.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:09 PM
 
17,691 posts, read 8,866,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
As to the OP Prince is simple "prosperity gospel" dressed up as "grace" with a big dose of OSAS. Don't think that he is in it for the money, though (of course he has all the money he wants), he is in it for the feeling of power he gets from directing the minds of others through his rhetorical tricks in support of his specious reasoning. He LIKES playing to an audience just like any other entertainer, and he's good at it.
It's the carrot before the horse of ignorance, leading the gullible.
Although, I do not believe he is very good at communicating.

Can I get an "AMEN!"

(It's a leading phrase).
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:15 PM
 
794 posts, read 647,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Yes, it's just a question of what is meant by predestined, a part of a general plan, or individually as a form of micromanagement.


As to the OP Prince is simple "prosperity gospel" dressed up as "grace" with a big dose of OSAS. Don't think that he is in it for the money, though (of course he has all the money he wants), he is in it for the feeling of power he gets from directing the minds of others through his rhetorical tricks in support of his specious reasoning. He LIKES playig to an audience just like any other entertainer, and he's good at it.
Joseph Prince is not a prosperity preacher. He is not telling anyone to go out and get rich because they deserve it or anything like that. His preaching helps people understand who they are in Christ and diminishes all the lies of unqualification from religion. I believe anyone who labels Joseph Prince as a prosperity preacher is just following a crowd who don't even care to listen to his preaching with an open heart and would rather jump to a judgmental conclusion that to even give 5 minutes to what he has to say. And even if you have listened to him before you clearly are not listening to what he is preaching. Its going in your ear and being interpreted under the label people have for him instead of what he is actually saying. I don't think anyone else could ever preach the gospel in a more clear light than he has. Many believers today are still mixing the wines of law and grace together. That is why when you hear him preach you get a fowl taste of the mixed wines you interpret grace as.
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:27 PM
 
794 posts, read 647,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
He has a acknowledged making 50000 dollars a month.

And yes I have seen him on television. He turns my stomach with his swarmy delivery.
I guess people still love the idea of judging someone when they are prosperous even when God Himself blesses someone with prosperity. Oh if they have some money it must mean they are from the devil!

If you believe God does not want every believer to be extremely prosperous then what you're saying is that God values prosperity more than His Son. Jesus died and took all the punishment so that we could receive all that Jesus deserves. Does Jesus deserve prosperity? How about health? Does He deserve happiness?

Joseph Prince has been growing his ministry his entire life. He has lifted up Jesus in his ministry and in return God has lifted his ministry all over the world. Why is it you cannot believe that just because God has blessed him with a large church and a world wide ministry that you cannot believe all of this is a blessing from God? Isn't it interesting that everyone in Heaven walks on gold? Are you going to have something to say about that in Heaven? God gave Solomon 1000 wives and 200 billion dollars worth of gold and all of this for just 1 man. Do you believe God withholds anything good from us even great wealth? The reason why so many believers don't have is because they don't trust God for the things they want. We think a lot of something is too much for God to give when God is saying we aren't asking for enough and surely aren't trusting Him for what we do ask for.

Also, I'm sorry that you have been so distanced from the grace of God that hearing grace makes your stomach turn. I can assure you that you need just as much undeserved favor from God as everyone else.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:27 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,730,063 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
I guess people still love the idea of judging someone when they are prosperous even when God Himself blesses someone with prosperity. Oh if they have some money it must mean they are from the devil!

If you believe God does not want every believer to be extremely prosperous then what you're saying is that God values prosperity more than His Son. Jesus died and took all the punishment so that we could receive all that Jesus deserves. Does Jesus deserve prosperity? How about health? Does He deserve happiness?

Joseph Prince has been growing his ministry his entire life. He has lifted up Jesus in his ministry and in return God has lifted his ministry all over the world. Why is it you cannot believe that just because God has blessed him with a large church and a world wide ministry that you cannot believe all of this is a blessing from God? Isn't it interesting that everyone in Heaven walks on gold? Are you going to have something to say about that in Heaven? God gave Solomon 1000 wives and 200 billion dollars worth of gold and all of this for just 1 man. Do you believe God withholds anything good from us even great wealth? The reason why so many believers don't have is because they don't trust God for the things they want. We think a lot of something is too much for God to give when God is saying we aren't asking for enough and surely aren't trusting Him for what we do ask for.

Also, I'm sorry that you have been so distanced from the grace of God that hearing grace makes your stomach turn. I can assure you that you need just as much undeserved favor from God as everyone else.
If your ideal peddler of religion admits to taking in 50,000 dollars a month, and you see nothing wrong with that, then I can fully support that you should believe in everything the man says. After all where do you think that money is coming from?
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:46 PM
 
794 posts, read 647,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
If your ideal peddler of religion admits to taking in 50,000 dollars a month, and you see nothing wrong with that, then I can fully support that you should believe in everything the man says. After all where do you think that money is coming from?
What does his salary have to do with anything about what he preaches? He is an author and the pastor of one of the largest churches and ministries in the world. And you think $50k/ month is a huge salary for that? There are lawyers that make way more than that. Joseph Prince has turned down money before. He even voluntarily took pay cuts in his own salary. Don't forget, his church gets donations not only from the thousands of local residents who attend but from all over the world. This is not a bad thing. Every ministry should be focused on growing because the more money you take in the more places you can get the gospel to. It costs a lot of money to spread the gospel over major television networks nearly everyday as well as to travel the world and preach the gospel. Do you think he could do this without donations to his ministry? As for his own salary, that is between him and his church council I believe. I can tell you its way less than many other big name pastors out there that's for sure. You should never judge a pastor by his salary. Also, he does not peddle any religion. Grace is not a religion and he even makes it clear that Christianity is not a religion.
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