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Old 06-13-2010, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,469 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Finn. This is my reply to you
You claimed that I believe that man's will is stronger than God's.

Moderator cut: deleted

Last edited by june 7th; 06-13-2010 at 07:35 PM..
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:32 PM
 
159 posts, read 146,460 times
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And by the way, Finn_Jarber, accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is not solely a product of free will... there are also circumstances and chance involved. What if someone had killed you day before you accepted Jesus? You would be in hell now, as result of someone else's will. Would you be fine with that?
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,157 posts, read 19,964,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You claimed that I believe that man's will is stronger than God's.

Moderator cut: Orphaned
No i claimed orthodox christianity does .

But the truth is you do along with the rest of orthodox christianity but you are blind to it . Just read what you are posting ,you believe God cannot over ride man's will because God has left salvation down to a man's choice.

There is nothing remotely in the scriptures that goes along with this . Paul never once says it's a question of ones will.

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.Romans 9 verse 16

Last edited by june 7th; 06-13-2010 at 07:37 PM..
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:34 PM
 
223 posts, read 247,766 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Yes it's a hoax!

I have studied the bible for over a decade and I could not find a single place in the entire bible where Jesus teaches that those who reject him will be burning in consciousness for all eternity.

The word "hell" and "hellfire" only appear in English translations. It does not appear in the original Hebrew and Koine Greek.

Those who reject Jesus will DIE and be as if they had never been born. Only those who accepted Jesus will be given immortality and access to the tree of life, the lost will not!

So if the lost will not receive immortality and not gain access to the tree of life, then it's impossible for them to continue living. How can they continue to rejuvenate and scream and breathe and keep having life in some fire, when they are never going to be given immortality and never given access to the tree of life?

Only the saved will get immortality as a free gift at the resurrection - 1Cor 15:53.

This eternal hellfire deception began with Satan's lie in Genesis 3 when he said, "you shall surely not die!"

I think John 3:36 sums this up really well. Without Jesus they will NOT see life! Hence, they will DIE and be no more! Sleep in death forever.


Amen.
AMEN!!

THEY all perish!! like it is said in John 3: 16!! PERISH!! and NOT fry for eternity!!

PERISH!! PERISH like [domain blocked due to spam] is perishing as we speak!!

THEY ALL PERISH with their EGW S.O.P & IJ too!! PERISH!!

AMEN!!

JESUS is LORD and KING!! KING of KINGS!!
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:42 PM
 
223 posts, read 247,766 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Yes, I do believe the people from SODOM are in spirit and are being tormented in flames, and a place of great heat. Just as the Rich man that Jesus spoke about in Luke 16. And I believe they are all there because they opposed God.
Camp.

Your god is NOT the same GOD as mine!! Sorry.

Where is this fire exactly? Sodom was near the DEAD sea. NASA can't find this FIRE. My son went to the DEAD sea area, Ron Wyatt, Jon Gray went there too and could NOT find the FIRE of SODOM.

Perhaps your god has taken them all with the fire to MARS or Jupiter or VENUS??

I have a gut feeling DJconklin knows where they can be located and will let us know where?
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:42 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,270 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNC10 View Post
AMEN!!

THEY all perish!! like it is said in John 3: 16!! PERISH!! and NOT fry for eternity!!

PERISH!! PERISH like [domain blocked due to spam] is perishing as we speak!!

THEY ALL PERISH with their EGW S.O.P & IJ too!! PERISH!!

AMEN!!

JESUS is LORD and KING!! KING of KINGS!!
Eternal agony in some hellfire is an invention of the devil and is NOT taught in the Bible in the original manuscripts! Please believe this wonderful truth everyone as it will enable you to love God more.

The wicked will perish and BE no MORE! Psa 37:20, 104:35.

In the original languages eternal fire is a foreign thought.

The lost shall be destroyed in a fire (Psalm 145:20); they will die (Ezekiel 18:4); they will perish (John 3:16); they will be cut off (Psalm 37:28); they will be consumed (Psalm 37:20); they will be burned up (Psalm 97:3); and they shall be no more (Psalm 37:10, Oba 1:16).

My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the 5 or 6 strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying "destroy" or "destruction" are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.

Strange contention of some that to "perish" is in fact "to live on forever" Don't forget what devil said: "you shall surely NOT die".
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:48 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,270 times
Reputation: 86
ATTENTION Campbell34:

Rich man and Lazarus..Is it figurative or Literal ? Well let's see.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Did you catch that? If not, read those 2 verses again! Jesus always used parables when speaking to the Pharisee's etc. It was only when Jesus spoke with His disciples that he expounded all things.

So that proves and shows that the Rich man and Lazarus was a Parable!

Christ addressed the Pharisees when He recited this account (verse 14). Using one of their own well-known stories about the future (nearly every detail was recorded in Josephus' book, Josephus' Discourses to the Greeks Concerning Hades [pp. 637, 638], which was written shortly after Christ's time), Christ pointed out that in this life only we determine our future destiny. No second probation exists for the human race!

Jesus employed a popular Pharisaical story to teach an important lesson to the Pharisees. But the details of the story so contradict the other teachings of Christ (see Matthew 13:36-40) that no one should accuse Him of supporting the details of the parable itself.

A parable signifies a complete and often imaginary story from which a moral or lesson is to be drawn.

The Random House College Dictionary describes a parable as "a short, allegorical story designed to convey a truth or moral lesson.

Jesus' parables started this way: There was a certain etc...., bit like, once upon a time etc..

The pharisees believed that salvation is based on Abrahamic descent. They believed that all of Abraham's descendants would automatically go to Heaven. Jesus used this parable to turn the tables around and show them that is not the case. A lesson was drawn from it. It's simply a parabolic fable.

Luke 16:19-31 and the OT Isa 14:4-11[Parabolic imagery] is the ONLY place in the whole Bible that makes Hades/Sheol a place of suffering and is the ONLY place in the whole of scriptures portrayed as a place of torment. These being parables, so we can't now sweep all other[and there are many] clear verses aside because of 2 parables.

It's simply hebraized platonism and Christ's last appeals at his end of public ministry.

Rich man and Lazarus is the ONLY passage in the whole of NT of suffering in Hades. And that's because it's only a parable and NOT literal!

"Abrahams Bossom" was a Jewish idiom meaning "Paradise".

IDIOM = individual peculiarity of language - the language peculiar to a people or to a district, community, or class. example "Its raining cats and dogs". if someone tells you this, you take it literal or symbolically?

The nature and destiny of man was a major area of disagreement between Christ and the pharisees. The pharisees rejected Christ's teachings of Life, death and destiny of man. The pharisees were immortal soulists who also believed in eternal agony.

Jesus thus rebuked the Pharisees for their disregard of the Scriptures, foreseeing that even a supernatural event would not change the hearts of those who persistently rejected the teachings of "Moses and the prophets." The miracle of raising the real life Lazarus from the dead soon afterwards confirmed the accuracy of Jesus' conclusion. One did rise from the dead, yet the brothers of the "rich man" did not repent. In fact, the Pharisees even plotted to kill Lazarus after his resurrection. His very life was a reminder to them of their own hypocrisy

So you side with the pharisees over Jesus?

It's as literal as Judges 9:8-15 is, talking trees hehe :-)
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:49 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,157 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Yes, I do believe the people from SODOM are in spirit and are being tormented in flames, and a place of great heat. Just as the Rich man that Jesus spoke about in Luke 16. And I believe they are all there because they opposed God.
I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Can anything be more bearable than being tormented in eternal flames ?.

The god of orthodox christianity is a monster and history proves it because it's been murderous from it's origin.
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:50 PM
 
223 posts, read 247,766 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Eternal agony in some hellfire is an invention of the devil and is NOT taught in the Bible in the original manuscripts! Please believe this wonderful truth everyone as it will enable you to love God more.

The wicked will perish and BE no MORE! Psa 37:20, 104:35.

In the original languages eternal fire is a foreign thought.

The lost shall be destroyed in a fire (Psalm 145:20); they will die (Ezekiel 18:4); they will perish (John 3:16); they will be cut off (Psalm 37:28); they will be consumed (Psalm 37:20); they will be burned up (Psalm 97:3); and they shall be no more (Psalm 37:10, Oba 1:16).

My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language than when the 5 or 6 strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying "destroy" or "destruction" are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.

Strange contention of some that to "perish" is in fact "to live on forever" Don't forget what devil said: "you shall surely NOT die".
Mr T. J4L

Brilliant post!! one more point to your REP tally.

Will the IJ and EGW SOP perish first or last? You get one more point for correct answer.
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:54 PM
 
223 posts, read 247,766 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Can anything be more bearable than being tormented in eternal flames ?.

The god of orthodox christianity is a monster and history proves it because it's been murderous from it's origin.
I blame William Shakespear and KING JAMES for this nonsense of HELL BURNING for Eternity. Psalm 46 is the CLUE!!
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