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Old 06-17-2010, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,601,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
The Old Testament is filled to the BRIM with poets and prophets with VISIONS and higher spiritual understanding. ALL of them had to use things we UNDERSTAND in the physical realm to help us understand something HIGHER.

That's right. And I used to chide people for their literalistic 'comic book' interpretations - but I guess if someone wants a literal surface understanding it's their business. I still think some of the higher meaning gets through.

I hope.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,453,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
You certainly do not seem to be familiar with the Word of God at all, as you have no clue to what it says on the subject. You throw out things that are off, as to what the Bible teaches us, when a simple bit of personal research would show the errors you are making by assumptions of your own mind, cluelessly, on what the Word teaches.


They appear as men when they will, and they eat Adam persons' food, drink Adam persons' drink, and can take Adam persons' daughters in marriage, and go in to them, just as Moses said the fallen ones did, which Moses read in Enoch [Moses had the book of Enoch], and as Jude said, because Enoch wrote of it -and "everyone knew".
See and here is the problem. Jude didn't write that. You interpret it to encompass all these things but in reality Jude could have been referring to the REAL Enoch that DIDN'T write anything but was present in the oral traditions. If Enoch's wrote it the you must believe 1 of 2 things: Either Enoch never died or Enoch lived during the second and third century BC (BCE).. The years of silence some 1500 years after Enoch is said to have lived...

Which one do you believe?

Quote:
Many people have entertained angels unawares, as the Word says, because they can appear as men. The angels who made the oath to remain in earth, in bodies of flesh and to take Adam's daughters for wives could never return to heaven, and they knew it.
They left their first habitation to commit fornication with daughters of Adam, as even the womb brother of Jesus, Jude, said, who called Enoch "a prophet, seventh from Adam" [and quoted Enoch, the seventh from Adam]

But, as Enoch said, they had to gene splice, to get sons of Adam flesh, from their wives. In Enoch, the gene splicing is called "cutting of roots", when translated to the English from the Ethiopian Ge'ez, two hundred years ago.
So angels in heaven (where are these guys described again?) can't marry and have sex but they can choose to become men? Then how are they still angels if they turn into men? Seems a little ridiculous to me!

Supernatural beings mate with humans for what reason? to create men of renown (nephillim)? I think not... the bible states it was cuz they were beautiful women... so angels lust too?

Quote:
Really? You do not read at all, then, to see for yourself! Read it, it is right there!
Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
And the word used (agellos) for angel is the same word for messenger here:
Luke 9:52 And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him;

But angel doesn't really fit in that verse, does it... so the translators ALL translated it as messenger rather than angel.....

I believe in the K.I.S.S. principal... when reading scripture. Obviously you want there to be supernatural creatures that invade your shower and molest you.... but I don't see that happening in my reality.

Quote:
ye do err, [in ignorance of and] not knowing "the Scripture" said Jesus, and the Scripture Jesus spoke of was Enoch 1, which tells that the angels in heaven do not marry nor give in marriage, and that the resurrected saints will be companions of/like/equal with, the angels in heaven.
Jude called Enoch "the prophet, the seventh from Adam", and quoted him. Jude and James were womb brothers of Jesus, raised by the same mama, and she taught them Enoch, as they both use it in their letters, as Jesus does, as Paul does, as Peter does, as Moses does, and as Abraham did.
Enoch was called Scripture by the early Church men who left their writings, like Barnabas, who was a disciple of Jesus, and a companion of Paul's, who was called together with Paul by the Holy Spirit to be an apostle to the Gentiles.
Barnabas calls Enoch Scripture, and quotes from his book several times, as many other early Church writers do.

Abraham read from it to the men of Pharaoh, who wanted him to teach them "wisdom, values, and truth".
Translation of 1Q Genesis Apocryphon (1QapGen)
You can base your beliefs on this super-fairy tale kinda stuff but I'll take my religion straight up!

Most of what you repeat is not even close to being in scripture let alone logically sound. Enoch was written by an unknown author during the "silent" years. There is no evidence that it was written before that. It was common for a writer to use the pen name of a famous prophet in order for people to read the book...

Again... what branch of christianity do you belong to. I'd like to do some research into your beliefs so we can continue this lovely discussion of angelic sex and mayhem.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:18 PM
 
7,504 posts, read 5,606,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
I am glad you love the Word of God.
The graves get full, and dirt fills the holes. Cemeteries get full of bodies and have no more room. jars holding ashes of the dead bodies get full. coffins get full.
But Sheol is never satisfied and enlarges herself, an independant action that a dirt hole or tomb or jar or coffin cannot do.
Do you know that the sea floor was raised up a mile higher in the spot in the Indian ocean where the earthquake originated which caused a tsunami that killed well over a quarter million persons [an unknown number really, and may have been twice that amount] just a few years ago? Did you know that a raised seafloor cannot increase thickness of the mantle? Nor does a mountain raised high increase the thickness of the earth's mantle -but Sheol "enlarges herself" [the "hollows" Enoch saw beneath earth get larger, and "Sheol" is from the Hebrew word for "hollow" [hell is from the same root] to receive more souls, for holding them in the prison house of death?

Sheol, hell, never satisfied. Like sinful flesh, never satisfied of its lusts. Thankfully we have God who does satisfy us.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:10 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,339,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Again... what branch of christianity do you belong to. I'd like to do some research into your beliefs so we can continue this lovely discussion of angelic sex and mayhem.
I am a born again in Christ, female, Gentile, water baptized, Holy spirit baptized, unknown tongues speaking/praying/singing, wife of one husband for 46 years, mother, grandmother, member of the One Church, which is headquartered in Zion of the heavenlies, and which was typed in the Living Oracles committed to the Namesake People of the New Man name [Israel].
Whoever is born of Christ and whoever walks in the Light -as He is in the Light- is my brother, sister, mother, in the one faith; but Jesus is my Firstborn/ my Head, My Everlasting Father, in the New Man Name, into which He has joined me to Himself by second birth from above, into that One Living Spirit/ Christ.

Spiritual Awakening Radio - The Case For The Book of Enoch as Scripture

And you need to do research in the OT, for beginners, on the subject of the fallen Watchers/angels/sons of God, for Moses wrote of it, using Enoch for his writings. Even when Moses was born there were nephillim who were born after the flood -when other watchers fell and took daughters of Adam -as Moses wrote they did fall, and took daughters of Adam went in to them [for sexual union], as Moses wrote they did.
If you do not believe Moses, then of course you will believe nothing that you have not invented/adopted from those who do not believe Moses, for your own imagination to spread as if it was the "word' of God almighty itself.

Anak was a nephillim, a giant, and his descendants were all chased out of Canaan or killed in war, by King David.
Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years, so that all the unbelievers would die, who would not believe that God would give Israel the victory over the giants, nephillim, the sons of the fallen Watchers, who were from fallen angels/watchers after the flood, who were so tall at that time that the spies felt like grasshoppers in their sight, and so they appeared to be, in the sight of the giants in Canaan.

Any student of history knows that the giants descendants were in Europe and other nations even after they were chased out of Canaan and killed, who remained in Canaan, by the time of King David.
Any student of historical writings knows that the giants burned Rome, once, and that Rome was honed into the magnificent army that they became, because of being defeated by the giants, sons of the gods/elohym/Watchers/angels, so many times that they had to devise warfare tactics that would defeat them -and so they did conquer them, as historical authors did write.
And any serious student of historical writings of the Patriarchs knows that Jannes and Jambres were themselves nephillim, sons of a great wizard, Balaam, who was descended from giants.

Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 06-17-2010 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Germany
1,666 posts, read 1,730,253 times
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Quote:
Any student of historical writings knows that the giants burned Rome, once
never heard of that, sounds rather ridicilious to me, to you have any sources for that claim?

I learned a lot about Rome in school in Latin lessons and I never heard of any myth of Romans fighting against giants, the Romans fight and were ultimately defeated by Germanic tribes, while they were larger than other peoples they were no mythological giants as described in the apocryphal book of Enoch
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,406,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Any student of history knows that the giants descendants were in Europe and other nations even after they were chased out of Canaan and killed, who remained in Canaan, by the time of King David.

Any student of historical writings knows that the giants burned Rome, once, and that Rome was honed into the magnificent army that they became, because of being defeated by the giants, sons of the gods/elohym/Watchers/angels, so many times that they had to devise warfare tactics that would defeat them -and so they did conquer them, as historical authors did write.

And any serious student of historical writings of the Patriarchs knows that Jannes and Jambres were themselves nephillim, sons of a great wizard, Balaam, who was descended from giants.
Really????

Wow.

So, the planet, until now, has never had any serious students of history.

Just you (and anybody that believes in Enoch).

You, and ONLY the "others" who believe in Enoch, are the "serious students of history."

That is a BOLD statement, don't you think?

And, don't you forget, you are ripping to shreds entire sections of the Bible, believing what you believe.
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,453,901 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
I am a born again in Christ, female, Gentile, water baptized, Holy spirit baptized, unknown tongues speaking/praying/singing, wife of one husband for 46 years, mother, grandmother, member of the One Church, which is headquartered in Zion of the heavenlies, and which was typed in the Living Oracles committed to the Namesake People of the New Man name [Israel].
Whoever is born of Christ and whoever walks in the Light -as He is in the Light- is my brother, sister, mother, in the one faith; but Jesus is my Firstborn/ my Head, My Everlasting Father, in the New Man Name, into which He has joined me to Himself by second birth from above, into that One Living Spirit/ Christ.

Spiritual Awakening Radio - The Case For The Book of Enoch as Scripture

And you need to do research in the OT, for beginners, on the subject of the fallen Watchers/angels/sons of God, for Moses wrote of it, using Enoch for his writings. Even when Moses was born there were nephillim who were born after the flood -when other watchers fell and took daughters of Adam -as Moses wrote they did fall, and took daughters of Adam went in to them [for sexual union], as Moses wrote they did.
If you do not believe Moses, then of course you will believe nothing that you have not invented/adopted from those who do not believe Moses, for your own imagination to spread as if it was the "word' of God almighty itself.

Anak was a nephillim, a giant, and his descendants were all chased out of Canaan or killed in war, by King David.
Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years, so that all the unbelievers would die, who would not believe that God would give Israel the victory over the giants, nephillim, the sons of the fallen Watchers, who were from fallen angels/watchers after the flood, who were so tall at that time that the spies felt like grasshoppers in their sight, and so they appeared to be, in the sight of the giants in Canaan.

Any student of history knows that the giants descendants were in Europe and other nations even after they were chased out of Canaan and killed, who remained in Canaan, by the time of King David.
Any student of historical writings knows that the giants burned Rome, once, and that Rome was honed into the magnificent army that they became, because of being defeated by the giants, sons of the gods/elohym/Watchers/angels, so many times that they had to devise warfare tactics that would defeat them -and so they did conquer them, as historical authors did write.
None of what you are saying is found in secular history.. perhaps it is religious fanatical history but you really need to stop capitalizing the Greek and Hebrew words to make them into beings.

Nephillim is Or nphil; from naphal; properly, a feller, i.e. A bully or tyrant -- giant. and is not a proper noun...

I am surprised you didn't respond to this portion of my post:
Quote:
And the word used (agellos) for angel is the same word for messenger here:
Luke 9:52 And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him;

But angel doesn't really fit in that verse, does it... so the translators ALL translated it as messenger rather than angel.....

I believe in the K.I.S.S. principal... when reading scripture. Obviously you want there to be supernatural creatures that invade your shower and molest you.... but I don't see that happening in my reality.
And I guess I am not clear as to the kind of church of christ you go to...
Can you elaborate?
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,406,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
never heard of that, sounds rather ridicilious to me, to you have any sources for that claim?

I learned a lot about Rome in school in Latin lessons and I never heard of any myth of Romans fighting against giants, the Romans fight and were ultimately defeated by Germanic tribes, while they were larger than other peoples they were no mythological giants as described in the apocryphal book of Enoch

My husband is Viking-like. He is 6' tall, about 300 pounds, with a scruffy beard; quite intimidating to most people. I'm only 5' 1" so he is a giant to me.

That could be what they were describing in the Bible. You wouldn't want to take on an army of these guys; giant barbarians, really. Especially if you are tiny.

Last edited by herefornow; 06-17-2010 at 04:36 PM..
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:31 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,450,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
My husband is Viking-like. He is 6' tall, about 300 pounds, with a scruffy beard; quite intimidating to most people. I'm only 5' 1" so he is a giant to me.

That could be what they were describing in the Bible. You wouldn't want to take on an army of these kinds of guys; giant barbarians, really. Especially if you are tiny.
LOL! I wouldn't...neither should any tiny/meek person who's mental faculty is intact...unlesssss...your commander happens to be the almighty...(Judges 7:1-7)
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,406,297 times
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Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
LOL! I wouldn't...neither should any tiny/meek person who's mental faculty is intact...unlesssss...your commander happens to be the almighty...(Judges 7:1-7)
You, my friend, are quite right.
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