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Old 06-18-2010, 02:46 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,304,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
I never said I know all about Rome, but I know the myths about Romulus and Remus and that stuff, I am from Europe and If Rome were said to have been destroyed once by mythological Giants I think I would know that


I only know about 2 burnings in Rome, one about 400 BC (see here) and Nero's burning, and please don't claim that the Gallics are the descendants of the Nephilim, I don't know of any other incident where Rome was (almost) defeated

please share there exact references to your claims

The history of Rome can be traced, beginning in the Book of Jasher, and many of the kings of the Chittim, up to the time of Joshua going into Canaan can be found, named, there. The terms "mighty man/men" powerful one/s" in that book denote giants.
The wars of the Jews by Josephus have more history as it is connected to Israel and the giants.
The burning of Rome was by men who included heroes/mighty men of stature -whose wives were also of great stature, as the link I already posted in a prior thread denotes them to have been.

When the sons of Anak were no longer in Canaan, after their rout, they were in Europe, Asia, Scandinavia, and in the western continents.
Your research must begin with the OT, for the search of the nephillim and where they ended up after they were routed from Canaan.

I gave two links in the prior post for you to begin your research. If you want many quotes from historical writings, including the OT, on the nephillim/giants/titans/heros/gebers born of Adam daughters/bath and ben/sons elohym/of gods/watchers/angels, all together in one book, for you to research for yourself, then do a search on the giants of old and the wars between Rome and the giants. Then you can check out each historical quote, which are many, in the books that have been written and are quoted, for yourself. Most are available online, and many have been made available to buy, and can be purchased on Amazon.

But it all starts in 1 Enoch, an the OT corroborates that, as the DSS scrolls and many historians of the past do.

The wars Rome fought with the giants [and no, not every man in the tribes was a nephillim, but just like in Jericho and many of the Canaanite cities, many were] as recorded by historians are fascinating accounts, which agree with the manner that Goliath is reported to have challenged the Israeli army.
The sons of Anak were destroyed in Canaan, but not in Europe. Remnants of the giants continued in Europe and in the western continents for many centuries. I have a Navajo friend who says the word for human being in Navajo is Bíla'ashla'ii Dine'é and means five fingers -the giants had six.
Amo 2:9 Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them, whose height [was] like the height of the cedars, and he [was] strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath.

Num 13:32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, [is] a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it [are] men of a great stature.2Sa 21:20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
1Ch 11:23 And he slew an Egyptian, a man of [great] stature, five cubits high; and in the Egyptian's hand [was] a spear like a weaver's beam; and he went down to him with a staff, and plucked the spear out of the Egyptian's hand, and slew him with his own spear.

Quote:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/14666965-post217.html
Diodorus Siculus
2 The women of the Gauls are not only like the men in their great stature but they are a match for them in courage as well. ...
Polybius • Histories — BookÂ*1
LacusCurtius • Diodorus Siculus — BookÂ*V ChaptersÂ*19‑40
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Germany
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sorry but this links are way to long to read, I am not that much interested in the topic to do so, if you want to prove something then you should provide the evidence and not expect others to search for evidence for the claims you make

the bible does indeed speak about Giants, but this doesn't give the book of Enoch any credibility as it borrowed from the bible, so if Rome would have been destroyed by Giants, what would that prove? The book of Enoch says that the Giants were three thousand ells tall, an ell is about 50 cm, this would mean that the Giants were 1,5 km tall, almost a mile - this is way to ridicilous to believe, the biblical Giants were about 4 m tall as far as I know, 4 metres and almost a mile is a huge difference

I do not see how anything of this does relate to the topic of Bill Wiese's dream
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:06 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,304,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yeah.. I saw her reply... I am just curious because I have not come across this that much. Especially with so much literal interpretation of Enoch or any books for that matter, but especially Enoch. I don't think it is Pentecostal because I was raised as one... but again.. it has no bearing on the discussion but I am curious so I can learn more about it.
I answered.
I'm a member of the One Church
which is Mount Zion of the heavenlies,
personified in the Word as the the Mother of all who are born again
in Christ,
whose names are written in heaven,
whose foundation is built upon the Rock,
the Chief Cornerstone being Christ come in flesh, as second Man
which no one can be made members of unless they are born,
a second time/regenerated/made new again, in Spirit John 3:7,8
whose Gate/Door is the crucified flesh of Christ -Psalm 118

Psa 118:14 The LORD [is] my strength and song, and is become my salvation.
Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, [and] I will praise the LORD:
This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.
I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation. The stone [which] the builders refused is become the head [stone] of the corner. This is the LORD'S doing; it [is] marvellous in our eyes. This [is] the day [which] the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.



Hbr 12:22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Gal 4:26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.



1Cr 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided?
1Cr 1:18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Jud 1:3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Isa 12 Behold, God [is] my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the YAHH YHWH [is] my strength and [my] song; He also is become my salvation.
Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.

Jhn 4:14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

1Cr 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided?
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:39 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,304,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
sorry but this links are way to long to read, I am not that much interested in the topic to do so, if you want to prove something then you should provide the evidence and not expect others to search for evidence for the claims you make

the bible does indeed speak about Giants, but this doesn't give the book of Enoch any credibility as it borrowed from the bible, so if Rome would have been destroyed by Giants, what would that prove? The book of Enoch says that the Giants were three thousand ells tall, an ell is about 50 cm, this would mean that the Giants were 1,5 km tall, almost a mile - this is way to ridicilous to believe, the biblical Giants were about 4 m tall as far as I know, 4 metres and almost a mile is a huge difference

I do not see how anything of this does relate to the topic of Bill Wiese's dream
Do not expect me to isolate the thousands of references for you which others have already done, in other books on the subjects, for the truly interested to research for themselves "to see if these things be so".

This relates to the foundational doctrines of Sheol below earth, as related by Enoch; and the angels who fell, who are chained there; and to Enoch's book which tells about Sheol and the origin of demons, as the giants on the earth, whose angel fathers are chained in Sheol, beneath earth, awaiting the day of their being cast into the Lake of Fire, the Abyss.

The opening post is about a man's being shown the torments of hell.
On that vision/dream, I have no opinion, as I posted a rather glorious experience of Ian MacCormack's being taken to Hell, disembodied, and to heaven, after dying, and then being raised again, from the dead. His testimony I posted a link to, and it is absolutely glorifying to Jesus Christ, as the Savior who redeemed Ian moments before he died, when he prayed to Him.


Enoch tells about Sheol and the Lake of fire. Jesus confirms what Enoch wrote.

If I wanted to write a book with the thousands of references that others have already written, then I would not be posting on this board. Nor would I paste it on this board.
There is ample evidence for those who want to learn for themselves, to search written history for themselves, to "see if these things be true"; and I pointed you to how to learn history of the world, on the subject, which relates to the OP in that it corroborates Sheol below earth and the origin of the satans and of the demons who roam earth, as disembodied giants/nephillim, who are to be tormented in the Lake of Fire forever.

Demons believe in the Lake of Fire, and in Sheol below earth, because Enoch wrote their doom, from God, the Great Glory, who sat on the throne where Enoch was taken, and gave it to Enoch to write.


Mat 8:29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the [appointed] time?


Luk 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many demons were entered into him.
Luk 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the Abyss.

Quote:
.10And beyond these mountains Is a region the end of the great earth: there the heavens were completed. 11And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards the height and towards the depth. 12And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no birds, but it was a waste and horrible place....[chaos]



90:22...
23"And behold they were all bound, I saw, and they all stood before Him. 24And the judgement was held first over the stars, and they were judged and found guilty, and went to the place of condemnation, and they were cast into an abyss, full of fire and flaming, and full of pillars of fire. 25And those seventy shepherds were judged and found guilty, and they were cast into that fiery abyss.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,567,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Jonah left.
Jesus left.
Indeed. My point was that ETers always say that death has the final word - that death is a seal that seals a person's "fate". Which it obviously does not. And your point is?

Heartsong
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:52 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,304,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Indeed. My point was that ETers always say that death has the final word - that death is a seal that seals a person's "fate". Which it obviously does not. And your point is?

Heartsong
You set up a straw man and tried to knock it down, then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
But the funny thing is that as the legend usually goes... once a person enters hell they can never leave.
Jonah left Sheol.
Jesus left Sheol.
The fact is that because in Adam all die, the only way to escape death, to never see the "Death" who feeds "Sheol" his victims, even, is to be born again in Christ.
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:52 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,403,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
A critique of "23 Minutes in Hell!"

Is hell a Christian Hoax?


23 Minutes In Hell

Snippets from the above link are below:

The Scriptures know nothing of any such hideous monsters assigned to torture most of humanity for all eternity. The Apostle Peter warned that in the last days "false teachers" would bring into the Church, what he called "damnable heresies" (II Pet. 2:1).

There is no doctrine on earth that is more false or more damnable than the Christianized pagan doctrine of endless torture for which there is no redeeming value or purpose whatsoever.
Well this thread has diverged a bit from the OP... anyway I just finished reading the link. Wow it is obvious Bill is making up his story, there are way too many boldface contradictions in it to believe him, not to mention contradictions with even traditional hell belief.

One wonders if Bill is just delusional, or thinks he is helping people by scaring them into believing in hell, or is simply trying to cash in on a horror story.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Well this thread has diverged a bit from the OP... anyway I just finished reading the link. Wow it is obvious Bill is making up his story, there are way too many boldface contradictions in it to believe him, not to mention contradictions with even traditional hell belief.

One wonders if Bill is just delusional, or thinks he is helping people by scaring them into believing in hell, or is simply trying to cash in on a horror story.
Probably all three.....
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:49 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,403,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Probably all three.....
Yeah probably true. If you truly believe in ET, you should try to warn everyone you can about it. And if you can make a little money on the side, hey why not!

Unfortunately it seems from the contradictions in his own story that it is more on the fictional side than the delusional side...
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,384,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Well this thread has diverged a bit from the OP... anyway I just finished reading the link. Wow it is obvious Bill is making up his story, there are way too many boldface contradictions in it to believe him, not to mention contradictions with even traditional hell belief.

One wonders if Bill is just delusional, or thinks he is helping people by scaring them into believing in hell, or is simply trying to cash in on a horror story.
I think he missed the whole point of being shown hell. Even in dreams we get feelings.. Like when you are running and feel someone is chasing you...

Well what if Bill was supposed to recognize that this hell he saw and felt was not in keeping with God's character?

He makes is sound so horrible, I have to wonder why after all that he still thinks the god he serves would create such a place!
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