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Old 06-15-2010, 10:38 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,070,231 times
Reputation: 17784

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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Isn't this what you said?

"And there is NO such scripture to show proof that there will be repentance after death..... or the universalist as aggressive some are would of definitely without haste post it to prove their point but they can not because it is a lie."

So, you have never been given an answer?
Is that true?

(By the way, there is no PROOF of anything. Only faith.)

What happens when one dies in their sins without a covering? The
wrath
remains. Then what?

Yes, I have been given an answer.... the truth through God's Holy Spirit of the "Lake of Fire".... which is not the same as what the god of universalism teaches.....
You listen to a false god.... serving the god of universalism !! He is not the true God !! You speak his words and listen to his twisted truth of the written word of the true God!!
So of course your understanding is going to be false of the "Lake of Fire" because of your god who deceives you into believing his lies to keep you away from the truth and the true God of the written word.

That is why I told you to ask the God of truth !!! Because I know that your god tell lies !!
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,395,468 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Yes, I have been given an answer.... the truth through God's Holy Spirit of the "Lake of Fire".... which is not the same as what the god of universalism teaches.....
You listen to a false god.... serving the god of universalism !! He is not the true God !! You speak his words and listen to his twisted truth of the written word of the true God!!
So of course your understanding is going to be false of the "Lake of Fire" because of your god who deceives you into believing his lies to keep you away from the truth and the true God of the written word.

That is why I told you to ask the God of truth !!! Because I know that your god tell lies !!

Yikes, Latte'Chic. This has nothing to do with a "god of universalism." Did you read my last post, the one right below the one you just posted to? (I'm done for the night. Just think about it a little)

What does God call himself? Repeatedly. WHO and WHAT is tormented in the PRESENCE OF THE LAMB?

"Or are you not aware that the saints [the manifested Sons and Daughters of God] shall JUDGE THE WORLD? And if the world shall be judged by YOU, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (I Cor. 6:2)


"And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was given unto them [the saints, the manifested Sons of God]…" (Rev. 20:4).


"Very truly, I tell you, when you were younger, you used to fasten your own belt and to go wherever you wished. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will fasten a belt around you and take you WHERE YOU DO NOT WISH TO GO" (John 21:18,

The fire shall try every man’s work" in I Cor. 3:13 is a spiritual match with Rev. 20:13 & 15 where "they were judged every man according to their works … in the lake of fire." The "fire" is God’s SPIRIT.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us


.

Last edited by herefornow; 06-15-2010 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:11 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,385,896 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
NOPE! Not at all how it's going down. Not at ALL! Sorry. Not going to happen, amigo. You've got the wrong god under your skin.

(snuff them out of existence. Nice.)

Father, FORGIVE THEM!

HotinAZ, is he going to forgive even the ones that KILLED his son?????
Father forgive them, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.

It was God's purpose to blind them, so how could He hold them accountable for what was purposed from the foundation of the world? His death for the redemption of sins.

IOW, the reason they crucified Him was a VALID reason, but it was NOT a correct one, as Christ was correct in His testimony, although the Pharisees could not 'hear', nor 'see' it. Blasphemy carried the penalty of death. Right?

And actually, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob is my God Almighty, so careful how you address me claiming a falsehood against me. I serve Christ Jesus my King and Savior. Thank you.
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:14 PM
 
37,736 posts, read 25,416,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Sure it is. The Restoration of ALL is biblical. But you have failed in the definition of the word ALL. You have to discount more scriptures to believe in the literal salvation of all, than not to.

If I am God, per say. Then I decree what is right, and what is wrong. And the primary reason for this, is to give you the chance to come unto me, as your God and your Creator, willingly on your own. I have given you the most precious gift of ALL, because I KNOW you will break my commands, so if ONLY you would accept the gift, which is the blood of my own Son, you can then come unto me. Will you come to me? Out of Love? Because I love you? Your call, and your choice.

Well, this also applies to billions of people. All those who have lived, or ever will live. ALL of my creation. Everyone has the chance, and no man nor woman will be left out of this opportunity. Some have seen it far off in the distance, some had it up close, and many more see it from behind them in their history. Either way, if they know me, they are without excuse.

But, there will be those who have heard, have seen, and have turned their backs on us. They will be the most despised of all of creation, and they will feel the full weight of my vengeance before I snuff them completely out of existence so there will not even be a memory of them.

Then everyone who is left, ALL of them, will bend their knees, and lower the heads to my Son, and give Him the Honor He deserves, and that I have bestowed upon Him. Then I will be ALL and in ALL forever, even unto the end of the ages.

This is how I see this coming about from God's standpoint, personally after many many years of searching out the Truth. But hey, what do I know.
It is so disappointing that you could see such an egomaniacal God as worthy of belief, Hot. If you knew such a person who was even a little bit like this could you even consider them a friend. The Godfather wasn't this sleazy and autocratic. The words "believe on" have completely confused you about what God wants from us. It is NOT recognition for His Son OR ELSE!!! God needs nothing from us. He IS HONOR. He IS GLORY. He IS LOVE. We can't add any to Him or His Son. It is for OUR benefit and development that He wants us to do the things He asks. "Believe on" Him means that you should within your inner-most being commit to and follow the example and life of His Son . . . in Love of God and each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
NOPE! Not at all how it's going down. Not at ALL! Sorry. Not going to happen, amigo. You've got the wrong god under your skin.

(snuff them out of existence. Nice.)

Father, FORGIVE THEM!

HotinAZ, is he going to forgive even the ones that KILLED his son?????
It will dawn on everyone sooner or later, HFN. Patience.
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,395,468 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is so disappointing that you could see such an egomaniacal God as worthy of belief, Hot. If you knew such a person who was even a little bit like this could you even consider them a friend. The Godfather wasn't this sleazy and autocratic. The words "believe on" have completely confused you about what God wants from us. It is NOT recognition for His Son OR ELSE!!! God needs nothing from us. He IS HONOR. He IS GLORY. He IS LOVE. We can't add any to Him or His Son. It is for OUR benefit and development that He wants us to do the things He asks. "Believe on" Him means that you should within your inner-most being commit to and follow the example and life of His Son . . . in Love of God and each other.
It will dawn on everyone sooner or later, HFN. Patience.

LOL. Actually, I was thinking of the Godfather when I read his post......

Patience. Okay. I'm off for the night.
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,395,468 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Father forgive them, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.

It was God's purpose to blind them, so how could He hold them accountable for what was purposed from the foundation of the world? His death for the redemption of sins.

IOW, the reason they crucified Him was a VALID reason, but it was NOT a correct one, as Christ was correct in His testimony, although the Pharisees could not 'hear', nor 'see' it. Blasphemy carried the penalty of death. Right?

And actually, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob is my God Almighty, so careful how you address me claiming a falsehood against me. I serve Christ Jesus my King and Savior. Thank you.
(Oh, one more)

I'm not sure I claimed a falsehood against you. Sorry if I did. I know how that feels. It happens quite a bit to me around
here. Roll with the punches, I guess.

This is your statement: "It was God's purpose to blind them, so how could He hold them accountable for what was purposed from the foundation of the world?"

Is he or is he not going to forgive them? And, if so.......

Are you trying to say that his father is going to forgive them, but not the OTHER beings he created? The ones who did NOT kill his son?

You just said that God was going to rain vengeance down on the blind, basically. People ARE blind and do not know what they do until their EYES and EARS are opened. So, how does this work? God is going to FORGIVE the Pharisees that KILLED his son after having SEEN him with their own eyes? After SEEING the crazy miracles he was doing? But not anybody in the dark ages? Not the guys in North Korea that have NO blinking idea what is going on?

How is EVERY CREATURE going to sing his praises in the end, then?

(NOW, I'm done for the night. )

Last edited by herefornow; 06-16-2010 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,398 posts, read 14,270,249 times
Reputation: 10188
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
"For he who has died has been freed from sin." Romans 6:7

If you are dead, you have been paid the wages for your sinful works.
This is with reference to the previous verses regarding those who have been baptized with Christ. They are unified with Christ in His death and resurrection.

This is not in regards to all people.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,425,712 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
This is with reference to the previous verses regarding those who have been baptized with Christ. They are unified with Christ in His death and resurrection.

This is not in regards to all people.
All people die...
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:51 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,385,896 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
This is your statement: "It was God's purpose to blind them, so how could He hold them accountable for what was purposed from the foundation of the world?"

Is he or is he not going to forgive them? And, if so.......
Yes, for THIS ACT, ONLY. Understand this verse, but remember, it doesn't apply to their whole lives, but rather to this instance.

Jhn 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.


Quote:
Are you trying to say that his father is going to forgive them, but not the OTHER beings he created? The ones who did NOT kill his son?
For killing His Son, yes. It was purposed this way from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20
For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.


Quote:
You just said that God was going to rain vengeance down on the blind, basically.
No I didn't. I said God blinded those people for a purpose. He rains vengence on those who actually CAN SEE and turns their backs on Him, not honoring Him as God. A deluded mind, etc. Romans 1

Quote:
People ARE blind and do not know what they do until their EYES and EARS are opened.
Yes. So how can their sins be held against them? Again, understand this verse again.

Jhn 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.


Quote:
So, how does this work? God is going to FORGIVE the Pharisees that KILLED his son after having SEEN him with their own eyes? After SEEING the crazy miracles he was doing?
For the act of killing His Son. God can and does harden the hearts of those for a purpose.

Quote:
But not anybody in the dark ages? Not the guys in North Korea that have NO blinking idea what is going on?
Did I say that? No I didn't. Can the blind be held accountable? Again, reread that verse.

Quote:
How is EVERY CREATURE going to sing his praises in the end, then?
EVERY ONE who still is remaining will sing the praises, ALL of them.

Isa 66:23
"And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.

"Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."

You would have to change these verses in meaning completely to make your doctrine stick. Some say it is the 'new man' looking at the 'old man' that they are seeing. I disagree. It says what it says, and means what it says.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:11 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,385,896 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is so disappointing that you could see such an egomaniacal God as worthy of belief, Hot.
It is because I understand God, Mystic. I am sorry you cannot see Him this way iin all His purpose.

Quote:
If you knew such a person who was even a little bit like this could you even consider them a friend.
God isn't my 'friend'. He is my God. I honor Him as God, worship Him as God, and offer my thanks to Him as my God. I have the right to call Him Father, but feel unworthy to do so, until I am reconciled to Him. But friend? No.

Quote:
The Godfather wasn't this sleazy and autocratic.
This is irrelevant, honestly. I am not going to compare God to anything, especially a man who is evil.

Quote:
The words "believe on" have completely confused you about what God wants from us.
I do understand it.

Quote:
It is NOT recognition for His Son OR ELSE!!!
I didn't say that.

Quote:
God needs nothing from us.
Sure He does. He desires compassion, and ALL that it entails.

Quote:
He IS HONOR. He IS GLORY. He IS LOVE.
Agreed!

Quote:
We can't add any to Him or His Son.
What is a body, without it's limbs? Can a body be a body with only a head? Can a temple be callled as such, with only the foundation stone? We add to His Son, by becoming part of Him. A seed is only a seed, until it grows and matures, and then there are multitudes of seeds and fruit.

Quote:
It is for OUR benefit and development that He wants us to do the things He asks. "Believe on" Him means that you should within your inner-most being commit to and follow the example and life of His Son . . . in Love of God and each other.
It IS for our benefit, because without this, we are condemned. It is called the gift of Grace. But what is a gift, unless it is accepted?

You give your child a gift beautifully wrapped. The child then grows up looking at this gift, having never, ever opened it. As the person gets older and older, they ponder over the gift, but they have not a clue what it is, because they refuse to open, nor accept what is inside. Then they die.

Did they ever receive the gift, or just a beautiful package? I would argue they never received the gift, because they rejected it, having never opened it so see what was inside.

This is how I see the gift of Grace for the forgiveness of sins. You must accept the gift, receiving Him with your whole being, and then seek Him out further with thanks, honor, and submission.
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