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Old 06-13-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,248,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
That bolded part is just not true Verna. In fact it is contrary to the very scriptures I posted in the op. Eventually, EVERYONE is going to believe in Jesus Christ and do His will to the Glory of God. There is no exceptions to that.
That BOLDED part is the truth of God's Word.

The Scriptures you quoted in your OP are God's holy truth.

The only thing contrary to the truth of God holy Word is your comprehension of it.
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Old 06-13-2010, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,640,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
That BOLDED part is the truth of God's Word.

The Scriptures you quoted in your OP are God's holy truth.

The only thing contrary to the truth of God holy Word is your comprehension of it.

Verna, when does sin get eradicated in your belief system?
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,408,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Not really. Has to do with the corrupt sons of Levi and the evil in the land of Israel.


Mal 3:5 "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.

Then look at Ch4
"Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the LORD Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. 3 Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty.

Ashes does not equal being purified. The wicked are burned
Consider another biblical application of ashes:

Luke 10:13 "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

Ashes are a sign of repentance.

In his great power [God] becomes like clothing to me; he binds me like the neck of my garment. He throws me into the mud, and I am reduced to dust and ashes. (Job 30:18-19)

Notice... In his great power... he reduced Job to dust and ashes... reduced him to repentance but he wasn't annihilated? Was he?

Humbleness is also signified with ashes.

Gen. 18:27: Then Abraham spoke up again: "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes,

Job 40:12 "Look on everyone who is proud, and humble him, And tread down the wicked where they stand."

It signifies defeat:
Mal. 4:3 Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty.

These are all spiritual concepts and have nothing to do with annihilation of people or torture or any afterlife at all... these people were reduced to ashes or covered in ashes while alive.

Here is link that is helpful: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...=1944&letter=A
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
If you physically die before you have received Jesus as your Lord and Savior...truly born again...changed into the character of Christ...living in obedient faith...in the will of the Father...but instead, continuing to wilfully sin...you will not enter into heaven with the LORD for all eternity...Period...

...and to proclaim such a lie to innocence is something you will pay dearly for...an eternity spent separate from God...standing before Him with your hands dripping with their blood who believed your lies...God forbid anyone would believe He will allow worker's of iniquity entrance through those precious pearly gates!

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
So there will be like two people in heaven?

Jesus said: But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Matt. 9:13)

Verna, Go and learn what that means.
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
There's no purification after death. The straight gate (the Cross) and the narrow road of holiness are down here; Jesus paved this righteous road of love for us. If you're not on this highway of holiness, then you're on the highway to hell (the broad road of destruction).

Isaiah 35
[8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
[9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
[10] And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
Thanks a bunch, now I have the song 'Highway to Hell' stuck in my head!

How can you tell people about Christ given this:

2 Peter 2:20 -21 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,613 posts, read 32,038,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.


The verses above are evidence of a removal of sins after death.
It talks about the coming of Christ and the sons of Levi, nothing about afterlife, or anyone else but the sons of Levi.
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:39 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 1,489,072 times
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Oh no, Trettep!!! You better not be advertising Catholic Doctrine as truth.....you will be shunned. But you're right on about purgatory. You might want to look at 1 Cor 3:11-15 as well
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,248,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Verna, when does sin get eradicated in your belief system?
Sin is eradicated within one who is willing to accept of Christ's so precious gift of salvation...but for the one...because of his own love for sin...he shall finally perish.........God is ready to comfort those who repent of their sins, and who are humbled with great sorrow for them...enough to stop!...and He is just as ready to punish those that love their sins and who continue to live in them, with eternal separation from Him. God hates worker's of iniquty...and they will not enter in...

...It is written.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.


...and this is not a "belief system"...this is the Word of the Living God.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,640,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Sin is eradicated within one who is willing to accept of Christ's so precious gift of salvation...but for the one...because of his own love for sin...he shall finally perish.........God is ready to comfort those who repent of their sins, and who are humbled with great sorrow for them...enough to stop!...and He is just as ready to punish those that love their sins and who continue to live in them, with eternal separation from Him. God hates worker's of iniquty...and they will not enter in...

...It is written.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.


...and this is not a "belief system"...this is the Word of the Living God.
So you believe God can only eradicate sin with the permission of the sinner. Do you realize that is what you just stated in so many words?

For you said "sin is eradicated in someone who is willing...". That is a teaching that God must have your permission. Now you also said that God hates workers of iniquity and I agree. But what I think your failing to understand (and I mean this constructively) is that the workers of iniquity have NO Power whatsoever to overcome the nature that is causing them to sin.

Now Paul said that he was Carnal:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

So what does the scriptures tell us about those that are carnal?:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Now if the Carnal mind is enmity against God (which means the Carnal mind HATES God) and cannot be subject to the law of God then can't you see that the sinner has NO Power to become righteous and will NOT seek God. Something that HATES God will not SEEK God. So how it is that a carnal sinner can seek God? - Obviously it must be God giving them a NEW Heart which is exactly what God does:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

So we can't say that we have the spirit and therefore we chose God. God must give us a new heart in order to choose Him at all. It all starts and ends with God.

Now, what part of what I just stated is unscriptural?
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:47 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,579,456 times
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Who dies perfect?

I've known a few saints who passed into the next life, and though they followed Him with all their hearts, they were not spotless - and they knew it.

(Unlike some on this forum.)
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