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Old 06-13-2010, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.


The verses above are evidence of a removal of sins after death.
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Old 06-13-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,941 posts, read 8,521,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.


The verses above are evidence of a removal of sins after death.
Not really. Has to do with the corrupt sons of Levi and the evil in the land of Israel.


Mal 3:5 "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.

Then look at Ch4
"Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the LORD Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. 3 Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty.

Ashes does not equal being purified. The wicked are burned
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Not really. Has to do with the corrupt sons of Levi and the evil in the land of Israel.


Mal 3:5 "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.

Then look at Ch4
"Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the LORD Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. 3 Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things," says the LORD Almighty.

Ashes does not equal being purified. The wicked are burned
The levites were the chosen tribe that was chosen for the Temple service. Since this speaks of that day when Judgement comes this is referring to God's Spiritual Temple where all of those that are circumcised of the heart are JEWS and hence the chosen are the sprititual LEVITES and thus the "chosen" few who will also be the firstfruits. So this speaks of a time in the future. Remember that Christ is still building His Temple and shall come to it upon His return. The evildoer is our "old man". Those evil doers will be consumed (completely and entirely annhilated) but that is a reference to the spirit not the person. In fact, the annhilation is due to the putting on of the NEW MAN. That is how sin is destroyed - but the putting on of Christ.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,245,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.


The verses above are evidence of a removal of sins after death.
No, they absolutely do not....trettep...it is not expected of you to be able to read God's word in the light of truth...because you believe in a false doctrine...but this is for other's who may read it and learn from it...I pray someday your spiritual eyes will be opened...I do.

Jesus came to annul the Old Covenant, based upon the sacrifices of animals, and to establish the New Covenant based upon a single sacrifice...His own life...once and for all time, which would forever free man from his sins. No further sacrifice was needed!

Malachi had prophesied of this day: "Behold, I send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way for Me. And the Lord, the Messiah, Who you seek will suddenly come to His temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts" (Malachi 3:1).

Jesus is the MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT because He came to establish and proclaim it!

Upon completion of the Passover meal, Jesus set forth the New Covenant, He took the unleavened bread, blessed it, broke it and gave it to them to eat. He then took the cup of wine...the "cup of blessing"...gave thanks and told His disciples, "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which (ratifies the agreement and) is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matthew 26-28).

The unleavened bread represented Jesus' body...His flesh...that would be broken on the cross. The cup of wine represented His blood. His body and His blood represented His entire Being, which He willingly offered up to God to forgive man's sin and deliver him completely from the power of sin.
There was only one way that the New Covenant could be declared effective and legally binding...Read Hebrews 9:11-28.

...Now look at verses 16-18 more closely..."For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood." For the new convenant to be established, it was necessary for Christ to offer up Himself as the perfect and only Sacrifice sufficient to redeem man from sin, and destroy the works of the devil. Through Adam's disobedience, sin and death entered into the world. To restore man to Himself, God sent Jesus...His only begotten Son. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus (in the form of human flesh) lived a perfect, sinless life and walked in 100 percent obedience to God...

...there is only ONE WAY to enter into a blood-covenant relationship with God...through Jesus Christ, Who IS THE MEDIATOR of the New Covenant. It is through Him we receive the promise of our eternal life!...

...His life becomes our life...His strength becomes our strength...our enemies become His enemies...He gave us His Name, which represents all that He is...

...there are terms and conditions of this New Covenant...Just as God's blood-covenant with Abraham and Israel required 100 percent obedience, the New Covenant requires 100 percent obedience. Jesus said, "You are My friends. IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!.........IF!.........YO U DO WHAT I COMMAND YOU" (JOHN 15:14!!!)

He said: "IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!.........YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS - IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!.......YOU CONTINUE TO OBEY MY INSTRUCTIONS - YOU WILL ABIDE IN MY LOVE AND LIVE ON IN IT; JUST AS I OBEYED MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS AND LIVE ON IN HIS LOVE" (John 15:10!!!)

Under the New Covenant we are to OBEY...walk in 100 percent obedience to God...just as Christ did unto death...we must have the SAME DEDICATION...and the SAME COMMITTMENT to obedience that Christ had!
************************************************** *********************

There are Christians today who say that it is no longer necessary to obey the commandments...that Christ did away with the Law...that since we live under grace, we no longer need to obey the commandments. Jesus did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). He came in the form of human flesh, and in the power of the Holy Spirit lived a perfect life of 100 percent obedience to the Father.

There are Christians today who say it is impossible to live in 100 percent obedience to God. IT IS POSSIBLE!!! Jesus proved it is possible and He made it possible for you to do the same. He placed the SAME HOLY SPIRIT within you that makes it possible!!! You have a choice!

We must love one another with the SAME love the Father has for His Son...and the SAME love Christ has for us that made Him willing to die for us.

In Chrst's love...In His truth,
Verna.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 06-13-2010 at 11:07 AM..
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:47 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,763,217 times
Reputation: 58198
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.


The verses above are evidence of a removal of sins after death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
The levites were the chosen tribe that was chosen for the Temple service. Since this speaks of that day when Judgement comes this is referring to God's Spiritual Temple where all of those that are circumcised of the heart are JEWS and hence the chosen are the sprititual LEVITES and thus the "chosen" few who will also be the firstfruits. So this speaks of a time in the future. Remember that Christ is still building His Temple and shall come to it upon His return. The evildoer is our "old man". Those evil doers will be consumed (completely and entirely annhilated) but that is a reference to the spirit not the person. In fact, the annhilation is due to the putting on of the NEW MAN. That is how sin is destroyed - but the putting on of Christ.
Yes those scriptures certainly do speak of and are evidence of a removal of sins after death. You are absolutely 100% correct Trettep, both posts.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,638,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
No, they absolutely do not....trettep...it is not expected of you to be able to read God's word in the light of truth...because you believe in a false doctrine...but this is for other's who may read it and learn from it...I pray someday your spiritual eyes will be opened...I do.

Jesus came to annul the Old Covenant, based upon the sacrifices of animals, and to establish the New Covenant based upon a single sacrifice...His own life...once and for all time, which would forever free man from his sins. No further sacrifice was needed!

Malachi had prophesied of this day: "Behold, I send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way for Me. And the Lord, the Messiah, Who you seek will suddenly come to His temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts" (Malachi 3:1).

Jesus is the MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT because He came to establish and proclaim it!

Upon completion of the Passover meal, Jesus set forth the New Covenant, He took the unleavened bread, blessed it, broke it and gave it to them to eat. He then took the cup of wine...the "cup of blessing"...gave thanks and told His disciples, "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which (ratifies the agreement and) is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matthew 26-28).

The unleavened bread represented Jesus' body...His flesh...that would be broken on the cross. The cup of wine represented His blood. His bod and His blood represented His entire Being, which He willingly offered up to God to forgive man's sin and deliver him completely from the power of sin.
Yjere was only one way that the New Covenant could be declared effective and legally binding...Read Hebrews 9:11-28, which states:

...Now look at verses 16-18 more closely..."For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood." For the new convenant to be established, it was necessary for Christ to offer up Himself as the perfect and only Sacrifice sufficient to redeem man from sin, and destroy the works of the devil. Through Adam's disobedience, sin and death entered into the world. To restore man to Himself, God sent Jesus...His only begotten Son. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus (in the form of human flesh) lived a perfect, sinless life and walked in 100 percent obedience to God...

...there is only ONE WAY to enter into a blood-covenant relationship with God...through Jesus Christ, Who IS THE MEDIATOR od the New Covenant. It is through Him we receive the promise of our eternal life!...

...His life becomes our life...His strength becomes our strength...our enemies become His enemies...He gave us His Name, which represents all that He is...

...there are terms and conditions of this New Covenant...Just as God's blood-covenant with Abraham and Israel required 100 percent obedience, the New Covenant requires 100 percent obedience. Jesus said, "You are My friends. IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!.........IF!.........YO U DO WHAT I COMMAND YOU" (JOHN 15:14!!!)

He said: "IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!.........YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS - IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!...IF!.......YOU CONTINUE TO OBEY MY INSTRUCTIONS - YOU WILL ABIDE IN MY LOVE AND LIVE ON IN IT; JUST AS I OBEYED MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS AND LIVE ON IN HIS LOVE" (John 15:10!!!)

Under the New Covenant we are to OBEY...walk in 100 percent obedience to God...just as Christ did unto death...we must have the SAME DEDICATION...and the SAME COMMITTMENT to obedience that Christ had!
************************************************** *********************

There are Christians today who say that it is no longer necessary to obey the commandments...that Christ did away with the Law...that since we live under grace, we no longer need to obey the commandments. Jesus did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). He came in the form of human flesh, and in the power of the Holy Spirit lived a perfect life of 100 percent obedience to the Father.

There are Christians today who say it is impossible to live in 100 percent obedience to God. IT IS POSSIBLE!!! Jesus proved it is possible and He made it possible for you to do the same. He placed the SAME HOLY SPIRIT within you that makes it possible!!! You have a choice!

We must love one another with the SAME love the Father has for His Son...and the SAME love Christ has for us that made Him willing to die for us.

In Chrst's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Verna, I completely agree that we are to obey Christ. But my post still stands that there is a purification that takes place AFTER death during the time when Christ comes to His Temple. Those people will OBEY Christ. Obviously, this shows they didn't OBEY Christ beforehand.
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,245,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Verna, I completely agree that we are to obey Christ. But my post still stands that there is a purification that takes place AFTER death during the time when Christ comes to His Temple. Those people will OBEY Christ. Obviously, this shows they didn't OBEY Christ beforehand.
If you physically die before you have received Jesus as your Lord and Savior...truly born again...changed into the character of Christ...living in obedient faith...in the will of the Father...but instead, continuing to wilfully sin...you will not enter into heaven with the LORD for all eternity...Period...

...and to proclaim such a lie to innocence is something you will pay dearly for...an eternity spent separate from God...standing before Him with your hands dripping with their blood who believed your lies...God forbid anyone would believe He will allow worker's of iniquity entrance through those precious pearly gates!

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:42 AM
 
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There's no purification after death. The straight gate (the Cross) and the narrow road of holiness are down here; Jesus paved this righteous road of love for us. If you're not on this highway of holiness, then you're on the highway to hell (the broad road of destruction).

Isaiah 35
[8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
[9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
[10] And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,638,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
If you physically die before you have received Jesus as your Lord and Savior...truly born again...changed into the character of Christ...living in obedient faith...in the will of the Father...but instead, continuing to wilfully sin...you will not enter into heaven with the LORD for all eternity...Period...

...and to proclaim such a lie to innocence is something you will pay dearly for...an eternity spent separate from God...standing before Him with your hands dripping with their blood who believed your lies...God forbid anyone would believe He will allow worker's of iniquity entrance through those precious pearly gates!

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
That bolded part is just not true Verna. In fact it is contrary to the very scriptures I posted in the op. Eventually, EVERYONE is going to believe in Jesus Christ and do His will to the Glory of God. There is no exceptions to that.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,638,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
There's no purification after death. The straight gate (the Cross) and the narrow road of holiness are down here; Jesus paved this righteous road of love for us. If you're not on this highway of holiness, then you're on the highway to hell (the broad road of destruction).

Isaiah 35
[8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
[9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
[10] And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
I just showed the verses that showed that their is purification after death. None of what your quoting is contrary to that position.
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