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Old 06-14-2010, 11:18 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djconklin View Post
Most are quite minor. There's only about 50 major differences and none of them affect any doctrine.
What 50 major differences do you refer to?
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:31 PM
 
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As a non-believer I wanted to share my thoughts/feelings about this because I used to wonder the same things.

I have been told many times that I am going to Hell but have never been offended by it primarily, because I know it's not true. However, the people who tell me this I think are telling me out of love, compassion, concern or whatever because they truly believe that Hell is a terrifying place that nobody should have to go to especially, for eternity.

Does it matter to them? Some denominations teach that the more people they bring to God, the more they will be rewarded but does it matter to each individual? I think it's a matter of personal choice and feeling.

Will people act or behave differently if they had a different opinion about Hell? I don't think so. Some people believe Jesus will save everyone no matter how bad they are. Others believe that Jesus won't save everyone but they will be amongst the saved so they are just going to act how they do anyway and others may act in a rebellious manner to prove that they aren't going to Hell because, just like me, they know it doesn't exist. Or they won't act any different due to personal morals.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,557,405 times
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wccb - the fire that scripture speaks of originates from God, your Creator. You may recall that brimstone, a cleansing agent, is also an ingredient.

Because God has not forgotten you, He will draw you back to Himself. You may not know how dear you are to Him, but He has more than your address - He has the keys to your heart.

Believe this?
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:18 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastcountryboy View Post
As a non-believer I wanted to share my thoughts/feelings about this because I used to wonder the same things.
..
And I respect your right to have your own beliefs, so does God.

You have a free right to reject Jesus and not believe in God. And to be honest, it is the right choice for YOU.

The bible says that narrow is the road to life and wide to destruction..that means most of humanity will die believing as you and being an unbeliever.

Also.. that was the correct choice for them and for you because even if you were given a free ticket to enter heaven, you would be eternally miserable there.

So, I am happy for you that you are happy, I mean that sincerely........ because that choice make YOU happy and I respect peoples rights to have their own free will and own beliefs. Besides, as mentioned, you would be miserable in heaven anyway, so you are wise to reject Jesus.

God and heaven is not for everyone and majority of humans will not be there from their own free will. God and I respects your right to reject Jesus. And even if you got into heaven, heaven will be mental torment for you and you would never be happy there.

If God forced Satan, his angels and everyone like you who reject Jesus into heaven, it would be eternal torment for them there.

Don't forget, "morning star", which was Satan's original name, was already in heaven, yet he became unhappy with God and miserable in heaven..so did billions of angels who eventually joined "morning star" and rebelled against God. And this was while they were still in heaven and before God threw them out.

So as you can see, there have been billions of beings in heaven once before who became very unhappy there.

Heaven is not for everyone, and most people, including yourself, will never be there and that is good, because one day into eternity, you would turn on God and try to convince everyone else how bad and unfair God is.

But the good news for you is that God will not torture you forever. He will throw you into the coming lake of fire and there you will burn up and bvecome ashes and never be again, you will cease to exist for all of eternity, as if you had never been born.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:32 PM
 
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Yes, being religious = believe in hell.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,382,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
And I respect your right to have your own beliefs, so does God.

You have a free right to reject Jesus and not believe in God. And to be honest, it is the right choice for YOU.

The bible says that narrow is the road to life and wide to destruction..that means most of humanity will die believing as you and being an unbeliever.

Also.. that was the correct choice for them and for you because even if you were given a free ticket to enter heaven, you would be eternally miserable there.

So, I am happy for you that you are happy, I mean that sincerely........ because that choice make YOU happy and I respect peoples rights to have their own free will and own beliefs. Besides, as mentioned, you would be miserable in heaven anyway, so you are wise to reject Jesus.

God and heaven is not for everyone and majority of humans will not be there from their own free will. God and I respects your right to reject Jesus. And even if you got into heaven, heaven will be mental torment for you and you would never be happy there.

If God forced Satan, his angels and everyone like you who reject Jesus into heaven, it would be eternal torment for them there.

Don't forget, "morning star", which was Satan's original name, was already in heaven, yet he became unhappy with God and miserable in heaven..so did billions of angels who eventually joined "morning star" and rebelled against God. And this was while they were still in heaven and before God threw them out.

So as you can see, there have been billions of beings in heaven once before who became very unhappy there.

Heaven is not for everyone, and most people, including yourself, will never be there and that is good, because one day into eternity, you would turn on God and try to convince everyone else how bad and unfair God is.

But the good news for you is that God will not torture you forever. He will throw you into the coming lake of fire and there you will burn up and bvecome ashes and never be again, you will cease to exist for all of eternity, as if you had never been born.
How does spirit become ashes? What kind of "fire" is the adversary and his followers going to go through?

God is RECONCILING things in HEAVEN and EARTH! WHAT needs reconciling in HEAVEN? Colossians 1:20: and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

What do you think these fallen angels need to learn? Are they learning? Why would God be teaching them anything?

Do you know the saints will judge the world and the angels?? What does that even mean??

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE The paragraph below is from: L. Ray Smith - The Lake of Fire - Part 12

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire. Ponder this:Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44). We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23). We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2). God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4). We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29). God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!



Ephesians 3:10: His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,


Colossians 1:20: And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


Revelation 5:13: Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:05 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
How does spirit become ashes? What kind of "fire" is the adversary and his followers going to go through?

God is RECONCILING things in HEAVEN and EARTH! WHAT needs reconciling in HEAVEN? Colossians 1:20: and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

What do you think these fallen angels need to learn? Are they learning? Why would God be teaching them anything?

Do you know the saints will judge the world and the angels?? What does that even mean??

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE The paragraph below is from: L. Ray Smith - The Lake of Fire - Part 12

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire. Ponder this:Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44). We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23). We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2). God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4). We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29). God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!



Ephesians 3:10: His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,


Colossians 1:20: And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


Revelation 5:13: Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

The "spirit" teaching you refer to is not in bible, but only found in satanic new age and spiritualism literature.

Everyone's spirit, goes back to God at death, Ecc 12:7.

Then the person DIES!

Then God will breathe the spirit back into the saved and give them immortality!

But the lost will cease to be and will not receive the spirit of immortality.

You need to read your bible and stop believing the satanic new age and spiritualism literature.

Mankind has the promise of immortality to be given to the faithful as a gift when Jesus returns. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 - and NOT before Jesus returns and never to the lost.

The Bible never says a person "has" a soul that enters the body at birth and then leaves the body at death, a conscious, feeling, thinking kind of an ethereal thing that floats away. That's derived from satans deception and simply is NOT in the Bible , yet millions believe it to be true.

SOUL[nephesh/ Greek- psuche] = Man in total, and not a seperate entity. Adam became a LIVING being[nephesh] in total! NOWHERE does it say in the Bible about a seperate SOUL entering the man at birth or leaving the body at death

A soul is a person, and if a person sins, he or she will die. So modern Bible versions render Ezekiel 18:4 as follows: "The PERSON who sins is the one who will die." Today's English Version. "It is for man's own sins that HE will die."The Living Bible. "The SOUL who sins will die."New American Standard Bible (a footnote on the word soul says "PERSON")

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls. soul = man in his totality.

According to God's Word, souls do die![Eze 18:4,13,20] We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal [Job 4:17]. Only God is immortal [1 Timothy :15, 16]. The concept of an undying, immortal soul goes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death. Satan has tricked many!
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,382,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Thttp://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q7dgpFPZMWEJ:bible-truths.com/lake12.html+l+ray+smith+god%27s+ministers+flames+o f+fire&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Everyone's spirit, goes back to God at death, Ecc 12:7.

Then the person DIES!

Then God will breathe the spirit back into the saved and give them immortality!

But the lost will cease to be and will not receive the spirit of immortality.

You need to read your bible and stop believing the satanic new age and spiritualism literature.

Mankind has the promise of immortality to be given to the faithful as a gift when Jesus returns. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 - and NOT before Jesus returns and never to the lost.

The Bible never says a person "has" a soul that enters the body at birth and then leaves the body at death, a conscious, feeling, thinking kind of an ethereal thing that floats away. That's derived from satans deception and simply is NOT in the Bible , yet millions believe it to be true.

SOUL[nephesh/ Greek- psuche] = Man in total, and not a seperate entity. Adam became a LIVING being[nephesh] in total! NOWHERE does it say in the Bible about a seperate SOUL entering the man at birth or leaving the body at death

A soul is a person, and if a person sins, he or she will die. So modern Bible versions render Ezekiel 18:4 as follows: "The PERSON who sins is the one who will die." Today's English Version. "It is for man's own sins that HE will die."The Living Bible. "The SOUL who sins will die."New American Standard Bible (a footnote on the word soul says "PERSON")

A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls. soul = man in his totality.

According to God's Word, souls do die![Eze 18:4,13,20] We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal [Job 4:17]. Only God is immortal [1 Timothy :15, 16]. The concept of an undying, immortal soul goes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death. Satan has tricked many!
I believe that when the people die, they die. Their spirit goes back to God and their thoughts die with them. What is the problem that you are seeing here?


I'm not sure what you are referring to here in this statement: satanic new age and spiritualism literature. Could you explain? Maybe we had a bit of a misunderstanding........

And, also........What needs reconciling in the heavens?
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:23 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,610 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I believe that when the people die, they die. Their spirit goes back to God and their thoughts die with them. What is the problem that you are seeing here?


I'm not sure what you are referring to here in this statement: satanic new age and spiritualism literature. Could you explain? Maybe we had a bit of a misunderstanding........

And, also........What needs reconciling in the heavens?
Your claims are not true according to the bible. And claiming Jesus IS a fire is an attack on The Lord.

Reconciliation is complete at Cavalry it is finished, John 19:30.
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,390,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleHeart View Post
Your claims are not true according to the bible. And claiming Jesus IS a fire is an attack on The Lord.
Is claiming Jesus has a two-edged sword coming out of his mouth to smote his enemies an attack on the Lord? I don't see the problem you have with what was said.

Quote:
Reconciliation is complete at Cavalry it is finished, John 19:30.
Yes reconciliation is complete. So what is there to punish people for if they are reconciled?

What do you think of this passage:
"so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." (Hebrews 9:28)

So apparently salvation did not come at Calvary... so then reconciliation (man reconciled to God without sin barrier) is complete but what then is salvation if it has not come (if you are a futurist) or came later in time?
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