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Old 10-07-2014, 02:46 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
I totally agree. This notion we put in vowels to YHWH? AND A SACERD NAME WE HAVE? Isn't valid. Christianity didn't just evolve to saying Our Father in our prayers? From its start with the Apostles taught by Jesus and fully revealed by Jesus life, death then Resurrection. That through faith in and by Him. We too shall declare OUR FATHER Also.
Apostasy didn't create this???? Jesus nor through His Apostles declared a elite ruling class ....Them....
Were only worthy either. As Richard's Group teaches two classes of Christians?
But THEN RICHARDS Group of religious affiliation. Doesn't give any one in Churches any worthiness.
We do declare Jesus opened the door to a personal relationship to God by Holy Spirit provided. That is why OUR FATHER IN JESUS NAME IS DECLARED by Christians and very much so, sufficient
You know nothing of what I know or believe...I am not affiliated with any organization...

May I suggest that you utilize Google Translate in order to put your words into proper English sentence order from your native language?...It is rather difficult to understand what you are attempting to communicate...
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:20 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,310,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You know nothing of what I know or believe...I am not affiliated with any organization...

May I suggest that you utilize Google Translate in order to put your words into proper English sentence order from your native language?...It is rather difficult to understand what you are attempting to communicate...
Richard Perhaps you need Google translate? I can read my post. If you can't you may need it?
Also Richard some may be curious as to where you were taught Jehovah is a Angel ? Rather some like me, first believing it might be the Jehovah Witness organization? But they teach Jesus is a Angel. Not Jehovah?? They do refer to Jehovah as God Almighty.

So Richard. If we wanted to learn why Jehovah is a Angel and not God Almighty ? Where should we go to? As you Richard did? If we wanted to learn more about what you made as your thread title? (( Jehovah is a Angel not God Almighty)
What Church or Organization teaches this?
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
1,266 posts, read 949,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican View Post
The word "Jehova" isn't even being pronounced correctly by the people who often use it. People who believe it's the literal name of God are completely wrong, nobody knows God's actual name, not even the people who wrote the Bible. Jehova is a English-Greek translation of YHWH which simply means "The Lord" or "I Am The Lord,"
No, that's not at all what YHWH means. The Tetragrammaton likely has some relationship to the root היה, which means "to be," but no current theories are widely accepted. A few decades ago Cross' theory that it meant "One Who Causes to Be," and was part of an original cultic epithet יהוה*אלהים, "One Who Causes Gods to Be," was pretty widely accepted, but the combination of those two words is now thought to be secondary, and we've discovered versions of the name in some Egyptian documents that suggest it began as a regional designation specifying a land and people around the Midian/Edom area. There's no way to be sure about what it actually meant originally, but it absolutely did not mean "Lord." "Lord" was אדון in Hebrew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican View Post
it's a Title, not an actual name.
All divine names from Northwest Semitic antiquity were titles. Baal means "Lord" or "Master." El means "God." These were considered the proper names of these deities, but they were still just appellatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican View Post
It's where the song "Hallelujah" comes from. In Hebrew there are hymns called Hallels, and Ujah is pronounced as Uyah or UYWH. So it Hallelujah literally translates to "Hymns of the Lord."
That's not true. Hallelujah means "Praise YHWH." It's a second masculine plural imperative.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:21 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,310,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel O. McClellan View Post
No, that's not at all what YHWH means. The Tetragrammaton likely has some relationship to the root היה, which means "to be," but no current theories are widely accepted. A few decades ago Cross' theory that it meant "One Who Causes to Be," and was part of an original cultic epithet יהוה*אלהים, "One Who Causes Gods to Be," was pretty widely accepted, but the combination of those two words is now thought to be secondary, and we've discovered versions of the name in some Egyptian documents that suggest it began as a regional designation specifying a land and people around the Midian/Edom area. There's no way to be sure about what it actually meant originally, but it absolutely did not mean "Lord." "Lord" was אדון in Hebrew.



All divine names from Northwest Semitic antiquity were titles. Baal means "Lord" or "Master." El means "God." These were considered the proper names of these deities, but they were still just appellatives.



That's not true. Hallelujah means "Praise YHWH." It's a second masculine plural imperative.
I surely don't lessen your detailed refinements to where YHWH came from Hebrew. You posted. I am no Scholar.
Just in common usage by Christians. It appears they took YHWH as we have it and just added vowels? Though for Jehovah the Y became a J. For Yahweh clearly maybe coincidence? Adding two vowels. Because JWs and Churches refer to Jehovah or Yahweh as the name. They would say it for them, refers to Lord God. But Lord being title VS name.
Also yes even in common usage Hallelujah is Praise God or Praise The Lord God.

I'd be interested in you opinions on the title of this thread and what the OP makes claims to....
Jehovah as a angel and not referring to God Almighty?
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
1,266 posts, read 949,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
I surely don't lessen your detailed refinements to where YHWH came from Hebrew. You posted. I am no Scholar.
Just in common usage by Christians. It appears they took YHWH as we have it and just added vowels? Though for Jehovah the Y became a J. For Yahweh clearly maybe coincidence? Adding two vowels. Because JWs and Churches refer to Jehovah or Yahweh as the name. They would say it for them, refers to Lord God. But Lord being title VS name.
Also yes even in common usage Hallelujah is Praise God or Praise The Lord God.
Yes, Jehovah is an old anglicized rendering of the consonants of YHWH with the vowels of אֲדֹנָי.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
I'd be interested in you opinions on the title of this thread and what the OP makes claims to....
Jehovah as a angel and not referring to God Almighty?
Well, in the earliest strata of the Hebrew Bible traditions YHWH is distinguished from El/Elyon. For example, in the original version of Deut 32:89, preserved in the Dead Sea Scroll manuscript 4QDeut-j, Elyon divided up the nations according to the number of his sons, with Israel going to YHWH. YHWH was one of the "sons of El/Elohim/Elyon. This reflects a pretty generic Northwest Semitic pantheon with the "high" god El presiding over lower tiers of deity. YHWH would fit into the storm-deity profile on the second tier, of which Baal is another example. This is why the Yahwistic literature is frequently and vehemently opposed to the worship of Baal, but has no qualms with the worship of the Canaanite iteration of El. Baal was YHWH's direct counterpart in Canaan, so he competed with YHWH for people wanting to worship a storm-deity. YHWH was brought into Israel from the Midian/Edom territory. I go into more detail on this topic in chapter 3 of one of my master's theses here.

Angels are another story, though. They represented the lowest tier of deity: the servant deities. In the earliest narratives of the Hebrew Bible you frequently YHWH himself visiting humans and interacting with them. But as time went on and the presence of God was thought of as more and more glorious and dangerous, it became taboo to suggest someone spoke to him face to face, so a lot of those texts were edited by adding the word "angel/messenger" right before YHWH. In some places this confused the identity of YHWH with the identity of the angel, leading some people to conclude that the angel was a sort of hypostasis or facet of God's identity. In reality it was just supposed to be an agent visiting humanity on God's behalf, but since it was being written back into texts where God himself was talking to humans, confusion arose. I discuss this a bit more here.

Was YHWH distinguished from "God Almighty" at some point in Israelite history? Yes, but that distinction was wiped out early on in that history. Was YHWH considered an angel? Never (although there is one place where Elohim ["God"] appears synonymously parallel with the word "angel" [Gen 48:1516], although it's probably a bit of poetic license rather than a sober declaration of theology).
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Old 10-08-2014, 03:05 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
Richard Perhaps you need Google translate? I can read my post. If you can't you may need it?
Also Richard some may be curious as to where you were taught Jehovah is a Angel ? Rather some like me, first believing it might be the Jehovah Witness organization? But they teach Jesus is a Angel. Not Jehovah?? They do refer to Jehovah as God Almighty.

So Richard. If we wanted to learn why Jehovah is a Angel and not God Almighty ? Where should we go to? As you Richard did? If we wanted to learn more about what you made as your thread title? (( Jehovah is a Angel not God Almighty)
What Church or Organization teaches this?
Uh, this is not my thread and I am not the OP...
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:38 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,310,375 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Uh, this is not my thread and I am not the OP...
RICHARD You still Came back not addressing the question? I do take note. You are not the OP. That leaves me with my original belief? Of what Group or Organizations teachings you claim.

As for the OP? I still do not know what Church or Group teaches... Jehovah is a angel and not referring to Almighty God? Though the LDS Mormons? Do see God as being Flesh and Bones?
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:38 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
RICHARD You still Came back not addressing the question? I do take note. You are not the OP. That leaves me with my original belief? Of what Group or Organizations teachings you claim.

As for the OP? I still do not know what Church or Group teaches... Jehovah is a angel and not referring to Almighty God? Though the LDS Mormons? Do see God as being Flesh and Bones?
What question do you want me to answer?...
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Old 10-13-2014, 08:59 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,310,375 times
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Old 05-30-2016, 08:46 AM
 
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God's message is always send through messengers(heavenly angels, They are mighty ones, may be called Elohim). God is almighty and King so I think He never gave a message directly. He is a King. He have sons( created) . They are called gods or sons of God. Yeshua (Jesus) reveled more about his Father than the other Elohim(angels). Because He is the First born Son( Col 1:15). So I think God almighty put His spirit upon angels and send to the old testament period. Look at Acts 7:38 & 53. It is my assumption only
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