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Old 06-29-2010, 12:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
If you live in sin and die in sin, you are forever "undone"...

...never to enjoy this most wonderful, eternal exhistance in heaven.

According to the everlasting, eternal Word of The Living God.

John 8:
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: whither I go, ye cannot come.

...you shall die in the sin of unbelief...in disobedience to the Word of God...you shall die in your iniquity...

Ezekiel 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Many that have lived long in their sin are, through grace, saved by true (once and for all time) repentance from dying in their sin...but for those who go out of this world of probation...into that of retribution...there remaineth no relief...salvation itself cannot save them...

Job 20:11 His bones are full of the sin of his youth, which shall lie down with him in the dust.

Ezekiel 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.

...eternal separation from Christ...

"...whither I go you cannot come." Jesus said.

When Jesus ascended into heaven, He went to paradise...there he took the penitent thief with Him, that did not die in his sin...but the impenitent not only shall not come to Him, but they cannot...it is morally impossible.

Heaven would not be heaven to those who die unsanctified and unworthy of it...

...you cannot come because you have no right to enter into that Jerusalem...

Revelation 22:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

In Christ's love, In His truth,
Verna.

Amen, Verna.

When contemplating these matters it is useful to keep in mind ALWAYS that Gnosticism is the central defining element in every major Christian heresy that has reared its head since Christ founded His Church, including the heresy of "Universal Reconciliation"--and that the "reconciliation of opposites," the so called "Great Work"--is the central doctrine that ties together all occult teachings.

Yes my friend, scripture is very clear: there will be NO marriage between the sheep and the goats on the Day of the Lord--or at any time after!
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. - Rev 22:11
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,236,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Amen, Verna.

When contemplating these matters it is useful to keep in mind ALWAYS that Gnosticism is the central defining element in every major Christian heresy that has reared its head since Christ founded His Church, including the heresy of "Universal Reconciliation"--and that the "reconciliation of opposites," the so called "Great Work"--is the central doctrine that ties together all occult teachings.

Yes my friend, scripture is very clear: there will be NO marriage between the sheep and the goats on the Day of the Lord--or at any time after!
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. - Rev 22:11
Amen! my dear friend!

I mean, after all...there's no way to talk about heaven without also bringing into the conversation, the clear view, according to the Word of THE!!! Living God!!! how it is we become worthy in God's eyes to get there!!!...what does it profit a man to "speak" of such excellant, eternal things...if they do not live FIRST! and FOREMOST! according to His will for their lives...?...it does not...and never will.

In Christ's love...In His truth
Verna.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,708,182 times
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I don't call it heaven because that reminds me to much on the Catholic idea of the afterlife, a realm of disembodied souls - the bible nowhere says dead people go to "heaven"; I call it the world to come as Jews do, I think the bible teaches a physical ressurection though I cannot really imagine it and I think the world to come will be a physical place like a restored Eden, but I think Humans will be somehow spiritual beings, not merely disembodied souls but kind of spiritual bodies similar as our bodies are now.

Do you think there will be different genders in the world to come, I don't believe that there are genders as there are now, but I think men will still have the individuality they had here, what do you think?

Do you think we see our friends again and that also broken friendships will be restored?

I think men will be like somehow like children, innocent and free from all evil, maybe God has some work for men

I imagine "eternity" though it is merely a philosophical concept as a beautiful endless moment in which there is no thought of time, neither past nor present, it is only a neverending moment though we will do different things, I hope you get what I mean
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,236,240 times
Reputation: 837
[quote=svenM;14828130] ..."...the bible nowhere says dead people go to "heaven"..."[/.quote]

...not quite...


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:02 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,833,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Amen! my dear friend!

I mean, after all...there's no way to talk about heaven without also bringing into the conversation, the clear view, according to the Word of THE!!! Living God!!! how it is we become worthy in God's eyes to get there!!!...what does it profit a man to "speak" of such excellant, eternal things...if they do not live FIRST! and FOREMOST! according to His will for their lives...?...it does not...and never will.

In Christ's love...In His truth
Verna.
I have heard it said about these people, "they want the resurrection without the crucifixion." That is a good way of stating it. There is another thread going on where one of them was saying how the crucifix as a "sign of torture" should be taken out of churches.

Do they not remember that Our Lord was tortured for our sins before he was resurrected on the Third Day,that Our ever Merciful Redeemer will one day come back as a Fierce Judge? ?

And they say WE are following a "false Gospel"?

Good grief!!!

In His Truth and By His Grace,
DS
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,236,240 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
I have heard it said about these people, "they want the resurrection without the crucifixion." That is a good way of stating it. There is another thread going on where one of them was saying how the crucifix as a "sign of torture" should be taken out of churches.

Do they not remember that Our Lord was tortured for our sins before he was resurrected on the Third Day,that Our ever Merciful Redeemer will one day come back as a Fierce Judge? ?

And they say WE are following a "false Gospel"?

Good grief!!!

In His Truth and By His Grace,
DS
It is so messed up....isn't it...? I clearly can "see" how hard Satan is working to decieve so many...the truly awful thing is...his hard work is bearing very rotten...putrid fruit emitting from so many of God's people....I feel His sadness...
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,570,727 times
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Wow - just wow!

Even Jesus himself was at times astonished at people's unbelief!

"Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these parables, that He departed from there. When He had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, 'Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works? Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?' So they were offended at Him. But Jesus said to them, 'A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house.' Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief."

The centurion believed and his servant was made well. The people in Numbers 21 believed, looked at a brazen serpent, and were healed of their disease. A father believed and his child was healed. Two blind men believed and were instantly able to see. Daniel believed God, and the lions could not harm him. Israel believed God and walked across the Red Sea on dry land. The Philippian jailer believed God and was saved, and his whole household. A sick woman believed, touched the hem of Christ's robe, and was made whole. Naaman, the leper, believed, and was healed of his leprosy.
A palsied man believed, picked up his bed, and walked away. Jairus believed God, and his daughter was raised from the dead. The children of Israel believed God and the walls of Jericho fell flat. Peter believed the Lord and walked on water. Paul believed the Lord and was able to face his own death with joy. Three Hebrew young men believed God and stood in the midst of a flaming furnace, unhurt. People believe God and are passed from death unto life. This is the power of believing, of faith.
On the other hand, we need to understand the power of unbelief. As believing saves the soul and enables the power of God to be released on behalf of the person in its fullness, so unbelief halts the full release of the power of God. Unbelief dams up the flood of God's blessing. Verse 58 says it so well. "He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief." The power of unbelief could stop God from doing what He could do.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,570,727 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
I don't call it heaven because that reminds me to much on the Catholic idea of the afterlife, a realm of disembodied souls - the bible nowhere says dead people go to "heaven"; I call it the world to come as Jews do, I think the bible teaches a physical ressurection though I cannot really imagine it and I think the world to come will be a physical place like a restored Eden, but I think Humans will be somehow spiritual beings, not merely disembodied souls but kind of spiritual bodies similar as our bodies are now.

Do you think there will be different genders in the world to come, I don't believe that there are genders as there are now, but I think men will still have the individuality they had here, what do you think?

Do you think we see our friends again and that also broken friendships will be restored?

I think men will be like somehow like children, innocent and free from all evil, maybe God has some work for men

I imagine "eternity" though it is merely a philosophical concept as a beautiful endless moment in which there is no thought of time, neither past nor present, it is only a neverending moment though we will do different things, I hope you get what I mean
SevnM, I believe it will be the restoration of paradise and as you say not disembodied spirits but spiritual bodies, free of the curse - returned to beauty and innocence. No, I don't believe we will have "genders" or at least not sexuality. I don't know how much of our individual personality will be retained - I just don't know. Yes, I think we'll be innocent and free like children who have never been corrupted by evil.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,453,633 times
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HEAVEN, I couldn't imagine. How do you even begin to imagine? For me, just to be in His presence....would be "heaven" enough, you understand? To be able to see my Daddy's face....
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:02 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,833,765 times
Reputation: 642
[quote=Verna Perry;14828445]
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
..."...the bible nowhere says dead people go to "heaven"..."[/.quote]

...not quite...


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
LET not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. And if I shall go, and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will take you to myself; that where I am, you also may be. And whither I go you know, and the way you know. ~John 14:1-4
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