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oh you mean the "frozen chosen" I belong to one since my wife's dad is a retired pres minister. there are two different ones. PC USA and PC.
anyway, one is more evangelical than the other... one has doctrinal issues. at their recent annual congress, I think the record shows they ratified a belief that all religions could be tolerated so long as their end was to an eternal God.
I'm traveling and don't have the facts in front of me...
it depends on your roots, where you are in your journey. if you're new to the faith, an expository teaching style right from the bible can really help one grow. The PC really waters down the gospel a little bit. mine spends way too much time on fund drives which always come back to mal 3 as they love to insist... I have droves of scholars that refute tithing as a NT teaching... but they insist on weaving sermons back to "what have you done (or given) to your church lately"
it gets old, but that's just my one hundred plus year old denom in th south
They used to be calvinists and perhaps there are still elements of this in them-probably varies, of course. I presented the Synod of Dort (you can find it in google) in one of them that I attended during a Sunday service as requested by the pastor, which you find somewhat laid out in their Westminster Confession-I was met with lots of hostility because I took "chance" away from them-so much for that bunch's roots to John Calvin. I reminded them of the confession but evidently that was by then an irrelevant document except as an historical curiosity (even though church officers had to confess that they believed it was an adequate expression of the bible and did not know it). I attend one now but am not a member as I no longer join churches anymore for various reasons, and if I get many more sermons on earth day I may leave this one. I like a church that has clearly laid out sets of documents of the theological structures that underpins them (some of the churches I have been in have kept this vague or there was none at all-don't ever join one that does not have the epistemological base available), and this church has them but I think the congregations are drifting away from them.
The service is pretty much like a Baptist or non denominational that I have been in. What I like are some of the forms that take place that the others omitted, such as the absolution of sin by the pastor during the service as well as a confession of sin (read by all, one doesn't confess publically personal issues). The music is older in the one I attend and is primarily the old sounding organ and the lady plays it well (I like Bach). The sermons are generally bible orientated rather than stories with moral presuppositions like I found in the Methodist and christian churches. There is not the invasive concern in your life as the Baptist had that I knew. I feel freer here.
I always "hear" a strain of an attempt to alter my thinking on social issues in the readings that come down from the head office or wherever the stuff is written up-I find this at times irritating as I don't like this "background" attempt at getting me to be something else, especially when this attempt is connected to doctrine-a thinking person can always bring argument to this stuff, so I think they sometimes take the congregation to be ignorant literal sheep. Power is had by numbers, so who gets control of the head office thinks it is there for the taking (for example, the head office in Louisville wrote a letter in opposition to capital punishment and used the membership numbers for the force-no one asked my opinion but included me-I like executions but that was an opposing opinion and ignoring those who viewed the debate differently irked me; perhaps they should have poled the membership and only included their support in their bias).
Many seem to want to get gays into the pulpit, and women pastors do not seem to be a problem for them-Guest ministers that have been at this one have tended to be story orientated with theology being an occasion for the story rather than biblical exposition (but then I think that is the case near everywhere), I like theology and its absence almost makes me walk out, but the church as a whole is moving in a liberal direction (as I view it) and I suppose in a decade or so it may be of little worth to get up on Sunday morning. One should remember that nowadays words no longer have universal meanings (or attempts at such) and even though people use the same words they may be saying different things. It seems to depend on the pastor. Perhaps you should take some time and just set in on various ones (even weird ones) to get a feel for them.
that was a joking reference made by a speaker a men's retreat for my church..it was funny and in a way accurate. we have a huge contemporay service and usually one or two will freely worship and maybe raise their hands...most others kind of stare.....I guess the joke is many Presbys' are like statues in church...never smiling, looking sad, or having a blank stare....I was only joking as was the speaker at our retreat
I am a member of a medium/large PCUSA church in Tallahassee. I will say that what you experience at a Presbyterian (or any other church congregation) depends a great deal on the congregation. There are maybe ten Presbyterian churches in the PCUSA, and two in the PCA (conservative) here. each of them is a little different. Mine is highly liturgical/ traditional, but has an incredibly modern and current pastor and cutting-edge leadership, with an emphasis on social justice causes of various types, and on personal spiritual growth. Three pastors have come from this church in the past few years. The message is typically simple, and is told as a story with a point of focus...with ample scripture to back it up. I would say that the hallmark of any church in the Reformed tradition, would be rich musical tradition, clear and simple messages, and a focus on our place and purpose in the world. I definitely think that the analogy of the "frozen chosen" has been used, although the PCUSA does not seem to believe in predestination as it is often defined.
Presbyterianism is still Calvinist at its core.
There is an inherent sense of superiority at every Presbyterian Church I have ever attended,
The Frozen Chosen is so so apt!
It seems like the Presbyterian church has been most resistant to the charismatic or contemporary praise and worship movement. It seems like they are afraid to show emotion during worship, generally speaking.
To backtrack a bit, there are charismatic Presbyterian congregations that believe and worship in the full operation of the Holy Spirit. I went to one that worshiped with contemporary music, and the congregation raised their hands, danced, and spoke in tongues. The pastor also had people come for healing. It was great to see Presbyterians excited about Jesus and worshiping in the Holy Spirit with such joy and expression!
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